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ChristianKl comments on Open Thread, October 7 - October 12, 2013 - Less Wrong Discussion
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The age of consent differs over the world. Even within the US. Kansas has one of 16 while it's 18 in Florida.
According to Wikipedia Spain even has an age of consent of 13 (with some exceptions) and the government recently announced that it wants to raise it to 15.
I don't think my morals on sexuality would change much by living in Spain.
I know this of course, I live in Slovenia where it is 15. However nearly everyone here assume it is 18. I think this is because:
The second is probably why they people here are surprised the drinking age is 21 in much of the United States. 18, rather than the more traditional 21 (see Roman laws) likely exists as a Schelling point for legal rights, because during the 20th century men of that age where judged useful for military service, not because it was determined as the age where people generally become capable of making all decisions on their own behalf.
Hitler started drafting people of age 22 when he reintroduced the draft in Germany. Later he drafted even people under 18.
I would rather think 18 it's the time where most people leave high school or the local equivalent and go to college or take a job. Taking a job means that you have to be able to make contracts while people act school don't have to make their own contracts.
Historically the first conscription in modern times was done by the French:
"Conscription in its modern form arose in revolutionary France, where universal military service was regarded both as a Republican duty, based on the principles of equality and fraternity, and as a necessity for national survival. In August 1793, a law limited liability for service to men between the ages of 18 and 25" (source)
In those times most people did not go to high school or the local equivalents.
Hitler's social order isn't the direct ancestor of our current social order.
British and Americans drafted at 18. British starting in WW1 as far as I can tell, Americans in WW2. The voting age in the United States was lowered for all states to 18 around the time of the Vietnam war (1971 to be exact), specifically on the notion it being unfair to draft 18 year old to fight in a war they couldn't vote on.
The US seems to have lowered it from 21 to 18 in 1942.
With googling I can't find easily when the US made 18 the year in which people can engage in contracts. But I think that's generally more central than voting and draft.
I would expect that age to be at 18 in the US before WWII.
Maybe, I certainly think it matters more than voting. But I suspect voting carriers more symbolic weight in people's minds.
This is an interesting question, If I have some time I'll check it out as well. Is there a lawyer who happens to know the answer here?
That's another example I thought of including in the post I've been thinking of writing but never got around to about what happens when the central example of a category for someone isn't the same as the central example of the same category for someone else.
Is this the post you want to write?
Not exactly.
I bet they would. At least if you grew up in Spain. Though probably not because of this law.
On what moral question do you predict I would have a much different opinion if I were from Spain?
If there is a question of sexual morality on which:
You grew up in a culture in which people tend to give one answer, which you agree with, and
People who grew up in Spain tend to give a different answer,
Then I think there's a reasonable chance that: in the counterfactual world in which your parents moved to Spain shortly before you were born, and you grew up there, you would give the Spanish answer instead of your current one.
That's an obvious point.
I don't think such questions exist to the extend that the answer is much different.
Is it usually wrong for two 13-year-olds to have sex with each other? What about a 16-year-old and a 13-year-old? 20 and 13?
In general I don't believe in a moral system where the central criteria of whether something is right or wrong gets decided by a straight rule.
What I do believe is wrong is when 16-year-old or a 20-year-old projects power in order to make the 13-year-old decide to have sex with them. Additionally I see responsibility to act afterwards in a way that the experience creates no emotional wounds or other damage.
Pregnancy would be damage because even if the 13-year-old gets an abortion getting a child killed inside himself leaves some emotional trauma. That means the older person would be responsible for seeing that the 13-year-old is on the pill and use condoms.
In practice I think there probably some level of wrongness in most cases where a 20-year-old has sex with a 13-year-old.
I suggest that, due to the anchoring effects of formal law, there exists some combination of ages such that you (and probably the average German) would say this and the average Spaniard, including hypothetical-you who grew up in Spain, would not. It may not be precisely 20 and 13, but I strongly suspect that such a pair of ages exists.
To make a specific answer I would first have to know which country you are from and then check the social data on differences of opinion from Spain.
It's in my profile that I'm from Germany, specifically from Berlin. In case It helps you, I'm born here.