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James_Miller comments on Less Wrong’s political bias - Less Wrong Discussion

-6 Post author: Sophronius 25 October 2013 04:38PM

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Comment author: James_Miller 25 October 2013 06:06:35PM -1 points [-]

while the other is, well… crazy

Which is which? But be warned as a former state senate candidate for one of the major U.S. parties and someone who thinks he knows a lot about economics and foreign policy I will have a very low opinion of you if you think my party is "crazy" unless you have a sufficiently impressive understanding of economics and foreign policy so that you can dismiss as crazy someone with my background. After all, if you are calling my party crazy, you are calling my beliefs crazy and you think that if we were to get into a debate about U.S. economic policy you could easily defeat me.

Comment author: CronoDAS 25 October 2013 07:47:07PM 10 points [-]
Comment author: Eugine_Nier 27 October 2013 03:09:33AM 8 points [-]

A politician's irrational beliefs about economics have a much larger effect on his ability to do his job than irrational beliefs about historical biology.

Comment author: James_Miller 25 October 2013 08:08:09PM -2 points [-]

Politicians don't always say what they believe. Plus, conditional on the Christian God being real, you should reject evolution and almost all American politicians claim to believe in the Christian God.

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 25 October 2013 09:42:59PM *  7 points [-]

Wait doesn't the Catholic Church accept evolution (with certain qualifications)?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05655a.htm

etc.

I think the Catholic Church is PR savvy enough to realize that at this point wholesale denial of evolution is like wholesale denial of heavier than air flight (in both cases, the phenomenon is so well established that there are businesses that rely on it).

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 26 October 2013 12:31:48PM 9 points [-]

It looks like the Catholic Church was never strongly against evolution, and has since taken up the idea that evolution happened, though God was involved in the evolution of the human race.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_evolution

Opposition to evolution is a distinctively Fundamentalist position-- it's not characteristic of Christians in general.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fundamentalism

Comment author: ChristianKl 25 October 2013 08:40:44PM 6 points [-]

Imagine all politicians of party A know a lot about economics. But because it polls better party A has an economic position that completely irrational.

Would you say it's fair to summarize party A as irrational in the aspect of economics?

Comment author: James_Miller 25 October 2013 08:42:04PM 5 points [-]

Yes

Comment author: fezziwig 25 October 2013 06:16:49PM *  5 points [-]

After all, if you are calling my party crazy, you are calling my beliefs craz

That's only true to the extent that the party, as an organization, accurately reflects your beliefs and desires (unless your belief is "my party is right", in which case you've been mindkilled).

If the example of a political party is too contentious, consider a lynch mob or a committee. Group psychology is more than just the sum of over its members; in extreme cases, the group can act in ways that no particular member approves of.

Comment author: James_Miller 25 October 2013 06:20:30PM *  4 points [-]

If you have devoted a lot of resources to a "crazy" political party there is probably something wrong with you.

Comment author: fezziwig 25 October 2013 09:31:24PM 4 points [-]

Well, maybe. If your investment goes back decades and the party only went crazy recently, then at worst you're a victim of mental inertia. If your investment is part of a plan to de-crazify the party, then at worst you're tilting at windmills.

It's hard to write anything else without abandoning the pretense that we're discussing a hypothetical, so I'll leave it there. A general point, though: I've long suspected that it's bad mental hygiene to think of any particular political party as "yours", even if you've been elected on its platform. It's a special case of keeping your identity small.

Comment author: James_Miller 25 October 2013 10:09:16PM 2 points [-]

But when you run for office as I have and have friends who have run in the same party it almost has to become "yours".

Comment author: BaconServ 25 October 2013 10:44:29PM 2 points [-]

This is telling and frightening. Do you earnestly believe the entirety of half a nation agrees with you?

Comment author: gattsuru 25 October 2013 11:16:58PM *  3 points [-]

While I disagree with the strong form of Aumann's agreement theorem, by the time we're talking a state senatorial position, you probably should be exchanging enough information with everyone responsible for your party's position as to at least reduce any gaps. There are possible stable orbits outside of complete agreement, but the mechanic involved for state senators favors strong agreement.

Also, folk often conflate the position of individual politicians with the positions of their party just as the reverse, so it kinda is meaningful in that setting, as well.

This is different from the actual populace of the entire nation agreeing with you, since:

  • Much of the population doesn't vote at all.
  • A non-trivial amount of those voting do so based on erroneous information or no information at all.
  • The political alignment of a party changes drastically from location to location.
  • The relevant political topics changes depending on position, due to federalism.
Comment author: lfghjkl 25 October 2013 09:37:00PM 3 points [-]

Not if you consider it the "least crazy" alternative, and with only two parties in your country there doesn't seem to be much choice.