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savageorange comments on Open Thread, November 1 - 7, 2013 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: witzvo 02 November 2013 04:37PM

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Comment author: savageorange 02 November 2013 07:48:51PM *  0 points [-]

-- Time less ;)

-- this question feels like it's missing a word or two. What does time-preference mean?

EDIT: Thanks, Arundelo. So basically, time preference ~= level of short-sighted optimization.

In that case, do some projects that strictly require long-sighted optimization. A deadline is one good tool; Telling others what you're doing (in an unequivocal way, so that the greatest disappointment/irritation/harassment is achieved). Of course these tools are nothing new, the point is to increase the pressure as high as you can stand and reduce the amount of 'slack' time you have to allocate to a minimum.

On a more meta level, you can try things like doing some mindfulness meditation every day, which I personally find makes it easier to ignore irrelevant stimuli, worry less, and stick to my priorities.

An even more general observation: Introverts typically have lower time preference relative to extraverts, so ask them about how they dispel distraction. (I say this in the sense described by Dorothy Rowe: 'extraverts are basically worried about belonging and feel understimulated, introverts are basically worried about keeping control of themselves and feel overstimulated' , and not the vague 'Extraverts are social, introverts are not, derp' that seems to be the misapprehension of the average person)

In case there's any question, I'm an extravert, so yeah, I tend to struggle with this issue too.

Comment author: arundelo 02 November 2013 07:56:21PM 5 points [-]

Wikipedia:

In economics, time preference (or "discounting") is the relative valuation placed on a good at an earlier date compared with its valuation at a later date

[...] Someone with a high time preference is focused substantially on his well-being in the present and the immediate future relative to the average person, while someone with low time preference places more emphasis than average on their well-being in the further future.

Comment author: hyporational 03 November 2013 06:08:51AM *  3 points [-]

Telling others what you're doing

I read somewhere, might have been on lw, that telling what you're doing might decrease your chance of success, because it provides a way to get compliments without actually having achieved anything yet. I suppose this depends on how you do it, though.

Introverts typically have lower time preference relative to extraverts, so ask them about how they dispel distraction.

I'm an introvert, have terrible problems with time-preference, and don't understand the rationalization by Dorothy Rowe you provide.

Any empirical sources for your claim?

Comment author: VincentYu 03 November 2013 05:28:31PM *  3 points [-]

Telling others what you're doing

I read somewhere, might have been on lw, that telling what you're doing might decrease your chance of success, because it provides a way to get compliments without actually having achieved anything yet. I suppose this depends on how you do it, though.

Gollwitzer et al. (2009). When intentions go public: Does social reality widen the intention-behavior gap?

Abstract (emphasis mine):

Based on Lewinian goal theory in general and self-completion theory in particular, four experiments examined the implications of other people taking notice of one's identity-related behavioral intentions (e.g., the intention to read law periodicals regularly to reach the identity goal of becoming a lawyer). Identity-related behavioral intentions that had been noticed by other people were translated into action less intensively than those that had been ignored (Studies 1–3). This effect was evident in the field (persistent striving over 1 week's time; Study 1) and in the laboratory (jumping on opportunities to act; Studies 2 and 3), and it held among participants with strong but not weak commitment to the identity goal (Study 3). Study 4 showed, in addition, that when other people take notice of an individual's identity-related behavioral intention, this gives the individual a premature sense of possessing the aspired-to identity.

Paper link posted to LW dicussion in 2012 by Barry_Cotter.

Comment author: MathiasZaman 03 November 2013 09:46:10AM 1 point [-]

I read somewhere, might have been on lw, that telling what you're doing might decrease your chance of success, because it provides a way to get compliments without actually having achieved anything yet. I suppose this depends on how you do it, though.

I know this TED-talk says similar things. It's where I first heard of that concept.

Comment author: savageorange 03 November 2013 10:32:32AM 0 points [-]

I definitely agree that you can't -just- tell a person what you're doing, you need to pick the right person, and cultivate the right attitude (From my observation of myself, it succeeds when I am in the mindset where I can take plenty of teasing equitably, accepting any pokes as potential observations about reality without -stressing- about that.). ..

What rationalization of Rowe's? It's a summary of what they themselves report when 'laddered' (a process which basically consists of asking them what the most terrible thing that could possibly happen to them is, followed by iterative 'why?' until they can no longer go to the next lowest level).

For extroverts, being utterly abandoned == total personal disintegration; For introverts, utter loss of self-control == total personal disintegration. (I do paraphrase here; read The Successful Self for the whole picture.)

If anything, any rationalization is mine: I observe that introverts I know are reliably better at moving long term projects forward than I, or any extravert I know, seems to be. Not that they are not weak in this way -- they just seem to be less weak as a consequence of the difference in their focus. (my inference bolded.)

I'm neutral to your statement of introversion, basically because my prior for people being hilariously terrible at assessing this stuff is quite high.

No empirical sources as far as I know. Nobody even really manages to agree on the definition of introvert and extrovert, so far. Dorothy Rowe is just the only writer I've found on the subject who manages to describe a system that is relateable, consistent, and can be applied in the real world.

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