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NancyLebovitz comments on 2013 Census/Survey: call for changes and additions - Less Wrong Discussion

27 Post author: Yvain 05 November 2013 03:10AM

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Comment author: NancyLebovitz 05 November 2013 01:09:43PM 14 points [-]

I'd like a question about how politically active people are. Tentatively suggested list of answers: vote, vote in primaries, do research before voting, involved with parties, tries to influence legislation by contact with people who can affect it directly, has run for office.

An option for probabilities to the effect of "this is so hard to estimate that I don't think much precision is possible"-- something equivalent to "revival from cryonics isn't going to happen next year, but I don't think there's a sensible way to talk about the odds for thirty years from now". In other words, the militant agnostic position: "I don't know, and you don't either".

Here's a question I've wanted to see about religion, but it would also work for rationality: Has rationality affected any of your major decisions about sex and/or money?

Has rationality been of practical use for you? Time, money, relationships, other.

Do you use rationality (not necessarily learned at LW/CFAR) as a filter for who you associate with?

Comment author: gjm 05 November 2013 03:05:36PM 6 points [-]

"Vote in primaries" is a bit US-specific. How about "vote in national elections only" and "vote in other elections" (which would cover primaries, elections for local government, etc.)? Something like that, anyway.

Comment author: Xachariah 14 November 2013 08:34:35PM 1 point [-]

"Voting in primaries" is US specific, but it is significantly stronger than "voting in other elections." We have an order of magnitude more people voting in state elections than in primaries.

In fact, it's probably the strongest thing that you can do to influence politics in America. It's significantly rarer than volunteering to help elect parties or writing letters to your senator, and everyone who's at a primary already does those things.

Comment author: Nornagest 16 November 2013 12:40:31AM *  4 points [-]

I only bothered looking up the statistics for California, but there I found 31% of registered voters showing up for the 2012 presidential primary elections, as opposed to 75% for the general election. (The statistics for eligible voters are somewhat lower, but more or less proportionally so.) That's a significant difference, but we're not talking an order of magnitude, and I'd be very surprised to find that that many people are politically engaged in more substantive ways.

Comment author: Emile 05 November 2013 08:52:16PM 1 point [-]

France has primaries too now, I think it's an informative option to offer. How about "votes in parties' internal election, like primaries"?

Comment author: Eugine_Nier 09 November 2013 08:43:18AM 0 points [-]

I believe that the amount of effort this takes depends very much on the country.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 05 November 2013 04:44:49PM 1 point [-]

Fine with me. I'm not politically active, even in just one country, so I was fairly uncertain about what should go on the list.

For that matter, should going to demonstrations be on the list? How about organizing demonstrations?

Comment author: Larks 07 November 2013 04:56:49AM 1 point [-]

Unintentional dark humour (does not reflect badly on you): that "does research" is considered rarer than "votes".

Comment author: ChristianKl 05 November 2013 08:43:18PM 0 points [-]

I'd like a question about how politically active people are. Tentatively suggested list of answers: vote, vote in primaries, do research before voting, involved with parties, tries to influence legislation by contact with people who can affect it directly, has run for office.

"Do research before voting" seems like a strange formulation. It's has a ring of pulling an allnighter before an exam.

Comment author: DanArmak 05 November 2013 09:46:52PM 2 points [-]

It's has a ring of pulling an allnighter before an exam.

It's a good way to decide how to vote if you strongly believe you should vote, but you don't know much about the particular issue being voted on in advance. If the studying only affects your vote and not your other behavior, then why not put it off until the last moment before the election, when the most information is available?

Comment author: ChristianKl 05 November 2013 10:27:36PM 3 points [-]

If the studying only affects your vote and not your other behavior, then why not put it off until the last moment before the election, when the most information is available?

But it doesn't only affect your vote. Democracy lives from people discussing public events. Reducing democracy to voting seems like cargo cult democracy.

why not put it off until the last moment before the election, when the most information is available?

There very little real information that's made available right before an election. If you want to judge whether to elect party A or party B, you have to look at the track record of those parties.

Judging politicans by the promise that they make the month before election instead of judging them for the track record that they have gives all the wrong incentives.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 06 November 2013 12:19:56AM 5 points [-]

The track record is still available a month before the election.

Comment author: [deleted] 06 November 2013 09:49:54AM 0 points [-]

It's a better strategy than never getting informed about politics at all, though.

Comment author: ChristianKl 06 November 2013 12:00:20PM 1 point [-]

Yes, but I wouldn't use that strategy as a measure of whether someone is politically active.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 06 November 2013 12:42:15PM 1 point [-]

It strikes me as taking voting more seriously than than voting on the basis of a vague impression.

It might not be a measure of being politically active, though.

Comment author: [deleted] 06 November 2013 01:54:55PM 0 points [-]

It strikes me as taking voting more seriously than than voting on the basis of a vague impression.

...or even not voting at all.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 06 November 2013 01:59:31PM 4 points [-]

I'm curious about what proportion of LWers refrain from voting as a matter of principle, but I'm not sure whether this is worth putting in a questionnaire.

For that matter, I'm also curious about whether anyone was convinced to stop voting by arguments against it, as distinct from people who didn't vote and now had more reasons for not doing so.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 05 November 2013 10:00:46PM 1 point [-]

Also, following the news on a daily or even weekly basis means that you're going to get a lot of repetition.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 05 November 2013 08:52:39PM 0 points [-]

There may be a better way to phrase it, but different people certainly acquire varying amounts of knowledge before they vote.

Comment author: ChristianKl 05 November 2013 09:12:30PM 3 points [-]

I think twenty years ago the relevant question would have been: "Do you read the political section of daily paper?"

Today I'm not sure how to phrase the question.

Comment author: Xachariah 14 November 2013 08:15:54PM *  -1 points [-]

Everyone does research before voting according to them.

My family members aren't familiar with even the most basic differences between the executive and legislative branches, and routinely make mistakes that would be cleared up with a 1st year understanding of government. They attribute blame/praise to one branch that they couldn't possibly be responsible due to how the separation of powers works.

But they've all "done their research, and [they] know a lot better than [I] do about who to vote for."