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Stuart_Armstrong comments on Another problem with quantum measure - Less Wrong Discussion

1 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 18 November 2013 11:03AM

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Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 18 November 2013 05:35:40PM 0 points [-]

Er... this isn't a serious theory of physics I've put forwards!

Comment author: JGWeissman 18 November 2013 05:54:46PM 0 points [-]

My critique of the physics was more of an aside. The main point was the critique of the decision theory, that under the assumptions of this non-serious theory of physics, most of the measure of the various outcomes are independent of your decisions, and you should only base you decisions on the small amount of measure you actually affect.

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 20 November 2013 11:19:03AM 0 points [-]

you should only base you decisions on the small amount of measure you actually affect.

But whether that small amount is increasing in time or not is very relevant to your decision (depending on how your theory treats measure in the first place).

Comment author: JGWeissman 20 November 2013 12:28:58PM 0 points [-]

My point was that under your assumptions, the amount you affect does not increase in time at all, only the amount you do not affect increases.

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 20 November 2013 01:06:41PM 0 points [-]

?

Er no, you can still make choices that increase of decrease utility. It's simply that the measure of the consequences of these choices keeps on increasing.

Comment author: JGWeissman 20 November 2013 02:11:08PM 1 point [-]

Suppose you are in a world with measure M and are choosing between A and B, where A results in world WA which includes an immediate effect worth 4 utilons per measure, and B results in world WB which includes a later effect at time T worth 3 utililons per measure. Suppose further that under your not-serious theory, at time T, random quantum fluctuations have added measure 10M to the worlds WA and WB. So your choice between A and B is a choice to either add measure M to world WA or world WB, so that choice A results in WA immediately having measure M worth 4M utililons and later at time T, WA having measure 11M (0 utilons) while WB has measure 10M (worth 30M utilons) for a total of 34M utilons, while choice B results in WB immediately having measure M, (worth 0 utilons), and at time T WA having measure 10M (worth 0 utilons) and WB having measure 11M (worth 33M utilons), so you choose A for 34M instead of B for 33M utilons, for the same reasons that without the non-serious theory, you would choose A for 4M utilons instead of B for 3M utilons. Your non-serious theory should not impact your decisions because your decisions do not control which worlds it adds measure to.

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 20 November 2013 04:31:11PM 0 points [-]

I was envisaging utilons being "consumed" at the time they were added (say people eating chocolate bars). So choosing A would add 4M utilons, and choosing B would add 33M utilons.

Comment author: JGWeissman 20 November 2013 04:49:39PM 0 points [-]

I was envisaging utilons being "consumed" at the time they were added (say people eating chocolate bars).

My example is entirely compatible with this.

So choosing A would add 4M utilons, and choosing B would add 33M utilons.

So the problem here is that you are not accounting for the fact that choosing A in the measure M world does not prevent the accumulation of measure 10M to world WB from quantum fluctuation. You get those 30M utilons whether you choose A or B, choosing A gets you an immediate 4M additional utilons, while choosing B gets you a deferred 3M utilons.

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 20 November 2013 05:53:22PM 1 point [-]

A and B could be logically incompatible worlds, not simply different branches of the multiverse.

Comment author: JGWeissman 20 November 2013 06:04:44PM 0 points [-]

I am not sure what you mean by "logically incompatible worlds", but if worlds WA and WB are the results of different available decisions of an agent embedded in a common precursor world, then they both follow the same laws of physics and just have their particles or whatever in different places, and in a quantum universe they just have different quantum states.