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owencb comments on Embracing the "sadistic" conclusion - Less Wrong Discussion

10 Post author: Stuart_Armstrong 13 February 2014 10:30AM

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Comment author: owencb 14 February 2014 04:57:18PM 3 points [-]

"Barely worth living" is, by modern western standards, really awful. [...]

I am very uncertain about where the "barely worth living" threshold is. The best self-introspecting question I can think of to try to get a handle on it is:

Would you rather vividly dream (including all physical pleasures and pains) a day at random in the person's life, or have a dreamless night of sleep?

From your description I guess that this life lies substantially below the threshold (indeed many lives today may be, even in affluent societies). Note that a life which is 'not worth living' for the intrinsic value could easily be worth living for the instrumental values of helping others and leaving a better world behind than without the life.

Comment author: Stuart_Armstrong 15 February 2014 06:58:46AM *  1 point [-]

The debate about the zero level is interesting - Anders told me his zero is lower than I described, that you can get worse and still have a life worth living.

Your idea has merit, but the hedonistic treadmill is a problem - people would not want to dream a life much worse than their own, whatever the absolute value of it.