You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

solipsist comments on Open thread for December 9 - 16, 2013 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: NancyLebovitz 09 December 2013 04:35PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (371)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 09 December 2013 11:57:44PM 15 points [-]

New work suggests that life could have arisen and survived a mere 15 million years after the Big Bang, when the microwave background radiation levels would have provided sufficient energy to keep almost all planets warm. Summary here, and actual article here. This is still very preliminary, but the possibility at some level is extremely frightening. It adds billions of years of time for intelligent life to have arisen that we don't see, and if anything suggests that the Great Filter is even more extreme than we thought.

Comment author: solipsist 10 December 2013 03:22:19AM 7 points [-]

I don't think this is frightening. If you thought life couldn't have arisen more than 3.6 billion years ago but then discover that it could have arisen 13.8 billion years ago, you should be at most 4 times as scared.

The number of habitable planets in the galaxy over the number of habituated planets is a scary number.

The time span of earth civilization over the time span of earth life is a scary number.

4 is not a scary number.

Comment author: Douglas_Knight 10 December 2013 03:34:44AM *  4 points [-]

If it were just a date, then, yes, a factor of 4 is lost in the noise. But switching to panspermia changes the calculation. Try Overcoming Bias [Added: maybe this is only a change under Robin Hanson's hard steps model.]

Comment author: khafra 12 December 2013 01:50:41PM 1 point [-]

It changes my epistemic position by a helluva lot more than a factor of 4. If an interstellar civilization arose somewhere in the universe that is now visible, somewhere in a uniform distribution over the last 3.6 billion years, there's much smaller chance we'd currently (or ever) be within their light cone than if they'd developed 13.8 billion years ago.

Comment author: Leonhart 11 December 2013 06:55:00PM 0 points [-]

4 is not a scary number

It's the scariest number.

Comment author: passive_fist 10 December 2013 03:50:14AM 0 points [-]

It's potentially scary not because of the time difference, but because of the quantity of habitable planets. It's understood that current conditions in the Universe make it so that only relatively few planets are in the habitable zone. But if the Universe was warm, then almost all planets would be in the habitable zone, making the likelihood of life that much higher.

As I said in my reply to JoshuaZ though, the complication is that rocky planets were probably much rarer than they are now.