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NancyLebovitz comments on [LINK] Why I'm not on the Rationalist Masterlist - Less Wrong Discussion

21 Post author: Apprentice 06 January 2014 12:16AM

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Comment author: NancyLebovitz 08 January 2014 10:39:22PM 4 points [-]

You've underestimated what a Maintaining Decent Treatment for All People Movement would cover.

It might be pacifist. It would certainly be very cautious about war. It would be pro-refugee.

And push for a rational justice system. civil behavior by police, and good prison conditions.

Oppose domestic violence, and be emphatic that this applies to men, women, and children.

Oppose bullying, both in schools and workplaces.

I'm not sure I've included all the major categories.

A lot of this isn't being done reliably, and some of it faces a lot of opposition

I'm not going to say that the social justice movement is the only source of valuable information, but it's done some good work in pointing out that there's violence which isn't taken seriously-- for example, violence against trans people.

For another source (overlapping SJ, I think), check out work being done by whores for them to be treated as normal parts of civil society.

There's a lot of work to be done even if you aren't worried about apes and dolphins.

Comment author: bogus 09 January 2014 12:50:26AM *  4 points [-]

Sure, and political/social movements exist which pursue all of these goals. But the underlying moral principle is very much not a matter of ideology or any political "plank", even though 'left-wing'- or 'progressive'- leaning folks are perhaps more likely to care about it in a political sense. Jonathan Haidt is of course very clear on this, and the general idea is older than Haidt's work - check out George Lakoff's Moral Politics or Jane Jacobs's Systems of Survival.

This is probably one reason why the so-called "SJ movement" went so clearly astray in trying to piggyback on any and all of these quite diverse causes, and somehow join them all in some kind of 'big tent' movement. It doesn't work like that - 'big tent' organizations are always a result of coalition-forming within existing civic institutions and processes. Movements need more flexibility, as well as a stronger commitment from their participants.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 13 January 2014 02:43:10AM 3 points [-]

I don't know whether anyone noticed my list is basically libertarian. It's a very challenging agenda, but it just covers allowing freedom and protection from violence. It doesn't cover ongoing help for people who can't fully take care of themselves.