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asr comments on The Problem of "Win-More" - Less Wrong Discussion

26 Post author: katydee 26 March 2014 06:32PM

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Comment author: asr 26 March 2014 07:08:54PM 8 points [-]

Can you give additional example of this? I'm looking for parallels elsewhere in life where something is apparently useful, but is only useful in cases where you don't really need it, and nothing leaps to mind.

Comment author: pianoforte611 26 March 2014 10:34:13PM 16 points [-]

Skepticism. In theory it allows you to weed out bad ideas and find good ones, in practice it allows you to dismiss any idea you don't like.

Comment author: moridinamael 26 March 2014 07:51:55PM 7 points [-]

Trading individual stocks? Often touted as a great way to become wealthy, but in reality only the most skilled are successful at it. Much better to buy index funds.

Comment author: katydee 26 March 2014 08:24:26PM 4 points [-]

Picking individual stocks, being wary of "concern trolls" on the internet, making big elaborate complicated plans.

Comment author: Benito 26 March 2014 08:39:37PM *  3 points [-]

The last one is the only one I understand from your list, but it seems like a rather good concrete example. Making an elaborate plan is a great idea if it's definitely going to be useful, but otherwise it's a waste of time - like in HPMOR, when Harry makes a whole scheme of experiments to do that'll last for many months, but then it turns out his most fundamental premise is totally wrong. The big plan give him a big win when his assumptions are correct, but don't help him one iota when they're wrong, and he wastes a lot of time.

Moral: only make large schemes when you have strong evidence that they'll be very useful, and even then, first carry out any basic preliminary research, to check the assumptions going into the plan.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 27 March 2014 02:39:06PM *  1 point [-]

On #2 - Oh yes. Actual concern trolling is less common or harmful than dismissing actual ally concerns.

Comment author: CronoDAS 27 March 2014 05:26:05AM 1 point [-]

"In order to get a loan, you must first prove that you don't need one."

-- My "Murphy's Law" wall poster

(Note that this particular example is no longer true.)

Comment author: fubarobfusco 27 March 2014 06:00:40AM 3 points [-]

(Note that this particular example is no longer true.)

I'm under the impression that today it is more like:

"In order to get a loan, you must first prove that you will keep needing loans every year."

Comment author: knb 29 March 2014 08:14:44PM 1 point [-]

I don't think that was ever true.

Comment author: Lumifer 26 March 2014 07:16:10PM 1 point [-]

I'm looking for parallels elsewhere in life where something is apparently useful, but is only useful in cases where you don't really need it, and nothing leaps to mind.

Superstimulus food.

Comment author: pragmatist 27 March 2014 03:56:05AM *  3 points [-]

Most superstimulus food would be very useful to a starving person, so it doesn't fit the expressed criteria (specifically "...only useful in cases where you don't really need it...").

Comment author: mare-of-night 27 March 2014 02:20:27PM 1 point [-]

The idea of building a Minimum Viable Product comes to mind, especially if there's an externally imposed deadline. Some of the timed tests I've done for IT classes seem like purer examples of this than I'd expect to see in the real world - with some types of grading, you can't get a passing grade unless your thing /works/, and extra features don't count for much of anything unless your basic part is working.

The Arctic Expedition thought experiment also sounds similar.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 26 March 2014 07:32:01PM 0 points [-]