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shminux comments on Learning languages efficiently. - Less Wrong Discussion
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Well, there is the standard definition, that Jews are entitled to a state some place described in the Old Testament. Why are you asking?
That is not the case.
Zionism, in the broadest sense, refers to the concept of creating a Jewish homeland in the region of Palestine. This encompasses everything from Kahanism to Poale Zion. I'm not religious and don't expect to become religious, at least not by living in Israel.
If you are not religious than why is this a priority?
Three years of your life is a lot of time and it might be worth to spend it on more pressing issues such as defeating aging or preventing the world getting destroyed by an UFAI.
Well, I'm no fan of death, but (A) I have personal reasons for going as well, and (B) I have zero talent or interest in the topics I would be required to know.
Jews can be considered members of a religion or an ethnic group (obviously). A secular Jew might feel a certain draw towards establishing a homeland in the Palestine just in the same way that a secular American might have felt a certain draw towards Manifest Destiny.
Yes, but I think when you go down and think about how much utility those projects have you will find that there are things that are more important.
Sorry, I misunderstood your question. I thought it was asking about secularism rather than lack of consequentialism.
I think even conditional on someone posting on LW, questions along the line of "why are you spending resources on X rather than preventing UFAI" are not a great way to spread the message, in my opinion.
The main point I'm wanting to make isn't that he should work on UFAI but that he should actually think about what utility his Zionism has.
I think if he actually sits down and thinks about the utility he will find somewhere to focus his time and energy where it has a bigger effect. Whether or not that cause is UFAI is secondary.
I also don't think I'm damaging the course of UFAI by talking like this while on LW. I don't believe that you should be shy when new people enter your community.
You do realize what "spend money on this flying saucer we are building" pattern-matches to, correct? You can't just close distances like this for people.
I think a lot of nerds have a problem with being to shy. That leads to issues such as Why Our Kind Can't Cooperate.
I don't think it's my responsibility to close distances for other people. A good community should be a place where people want to belong and make the necessary work to belong to the community.
... I don't see how our definitions differ...
Well, for starters, Zionism doesn't have to claim that the Jews are uniquely 'entitled' to land, any more than the Germans have a right to East Prussia. If your claim that Zionism doesn't "mesh well" with rationality isn't grounded in Zionism being religious, then why doesn't it?
OK, though this seems like splitting hairs.
I was referring to your identity being both too large (include a lot of people most of whom are not like you, don't know you, don't care about you, have different customs and ideas from you, and probably genetically are quite different from you) and too small (why not include the rest of humanity, if you are casting as wide a net?).
Not at all. I'd say there's a big difference between the two.
As for my identity, I don't see why not. I identify as Jewish more than anything else. Israelis, granted, are genetically diverse, but their customs are very much the way I was brought up, and Jews (for the first time in 2,000 years) have a shared reference that isn't merely mythological. The fact that I'm a product of a Sephardic-Ashkenazi marriage doesn't hurt my ability to understand Israeli society, either.
OK, I think I understand, though I still think that your allegiances are mostly driven by your upbringing, not by any rational thought. Anyway, having at some point learned three languages fluently by partial immersion (with half-life of about 3-5 years if not practiced), I recommend it over anything else.