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SolveIt comments on Open thread, 3-8 June 2014 - Less Wrong Discussion
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Today is election day here in Korea. Although I have voted, I have yet to see a satisfactory argument for taking the time to vote. Does anyone know of good arguments for voting? I am thinking of an answer that 1. Does not rely on the signalling benefits of voting 2. Does not rely on hyperrational-like arguments.
Well you see the government comes to you with a closed box that they say they have already filled with either a totalitarian government if they predicted you would not vote, but it is filled with a relatively free republic if they predicted you would vote. They filled the box long ago, however...
Political parties will change their policies to capture more voters. So even though your vote won't change who wins the election, you will still shift the policies of the parties towards your own views.
You don't achieve this by voting -- you achieve this by loudly proclaiming that you will vote on the basis of issues A, B, and C.
I think half an hour to go and vote is probably more effective than half an hour of loudly proclaiming, but I can't think of a test for this. Perhaps look at elections where the vote showed that what people wanted was different from what the media said people wanted, and then see which way the parties moved.
The problem is that the party, when considering whether to change policies, has no idea who voted for/against it for which reason. All it knows is that it gained or lost certain number of voters (of certain demographics) in between two elections.
If issue Z is highly important to you and you vote on the basis of the party's attitude to it, how does the party know this if the only thing you do is silently drop your ballot?
Vote for a third party that cares about Z.
Provided that one exists. And provided that it isn't completely screwed up about issues A to Y. And provided you are willing to sacrifice the rest of your political signaling power to a signal about Z.
If you're lucky enough to be in a country with preferential voting, there's usually a handful of 3rd parties with various policies (with published preferences so you know where the vote will 'actually' end up). So you'll at least have the opportunity to cast a few bits of information, rather than a single bit.
Obligatory Ken the Voting Dingo comic about how it's not possible to waste your vote: http://chickennation.com/website_stuff/cant-waste-vote/web-700-cant-waste-vote-SINGLE-IMAGE.png "I'll look into this 'hugs'"
I must say I appreciate the comic which starts with "It's me, your good friend Dennis the Erection Koala" :-D
On the other hand if you actually do care about conveying bits of information, there are much more effective ways than voting.
Ah yes, you're right. That clearly weakens the effect of voting substantially.
Up until 2011 in Canada, Parties would receive by-the-vote subsidies to their budgets. This was strongly defended by the center and left parties as a way to keep big money out of politics and a measure of true democracy in our first past the poll system.
I once saw an argument that if you compare the chance of an election being decided by 1 vote to the benefits of getting your preferred party/candidate in power, which may be billions/trillions, then voting can be worth thousands of dollars - at least if you value those benefits at full rather than only for their affect on you (which is dubious).
http://lesswrong.com/lw/fao/voting_is_like_donating_thousands_of_dollars_to/
That's it, although checking that post and comments again I feel like it may be making an accounting error of some sort.
edit: Actually it's probably just positing excessive confidence (inspired by hindsight) in the value of getting your guy compared to the other guy.
The only reasons I can think of are your #1 and #2. But I think both are perfectly good reasons to vote...