[meta] Policy for dealing with users suspected/guilty of mass-downvote harassment?

Kaj_Sotala

51 [meta] Policy for dealing with users suspected/guilty of mass-downvote harassment?

6th Jun 2014

1 min read

51

Below is a message I just got from jackk. Some specifics have been redacted 1) so that we can discuss general policy rather than the details of this specific case 2) because presumption of innocence, just in case there happens to be an innocuous explanation to this.

Hi Kaj_Sotala,

I'm Jack, one of the Trike devs. I'm messaging you because you're the moderator who commented most recently. A while back the user [REDACTED 1] asked if Trike could look into retributive downvoting against his account. I've done that, and it looks like [REDACTED 2] has downvoted at least [over half of REDACTED 1's comments, amounting to hundreds of downvotes] ([REDACTED 1]'s next-largest downvoter is [REDACTED 3] at -15).

What action to take is a community problem, not a technical one, so we'd rather leave that up to the moderators. Some options:

1. Ask [REDACTED 2] for the story behind these votes
2. Use the "admin" account (which exists for sending scripted messages, &c.) to apply an upvote to each downvoted post
3. Apply a karma award to [REDACTED 1]'s account. This would fix the karma damage but not the sorting of individual comments
4. Apply a negative karma award to [REDACTED 2]'s account. This makes him pay for false downvotes twice over. This isn't possible in the current code, but it's an easy fix
5. Ban [REDACTED 2]

For future reference, it's very easy for Trike to look at who downvoted someone's account, so if you get questions about downvoting in the future I can run the same report.

If you need to verify my identity before you take action, let me know and we'll work something out.

-- Jack

So... thoughts? I have mod powers, but when I was granted them I was basically just told to use them to fight spam; there was never any discussion of any other policy, and I don't feel like I have the authority to decide on the suitable course of action without consulting the rest of the community.

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51 [meta] Policy for dealing with users suspected/guilty of mass-downvote harassment?

by Kaj_Sotala

6th Jun 2014

1 min read

240

51

Hi Kaj_Sotala,

I'm Jack, one of the Trike devs. I'm messaging you because you're the moderator who commented most recently. A while back the user [REDACTED 1] asked if Trike could look into retributive downvoting against his account. I've done that, and it looks like [REDACTED 2] has downvoted at least [over half of REDACTED 1's comments, amounting to hundreds of downvotes] ([REDACTED 1]'s next-largest downvoter is [REDACTED 3] at -15).

What action to take is a community problem, not a technical one, so we'd rather leave that up to the moderators. Some options:

1. Ask [REDACTED 2] for the story behind these votes
2. Use the "admin" account (which exists for sending scripted messages, &c.) to apply an upvote to each downvoted post
3. Apply a karma award to [REDACTED 1]'s account. This would fix the karma damage but not the sorting of individual comments
4. Apply a negative karma award to [REDACTED 2]'s account. This makes him pay for false downvotes twice over. This isn't possible in the current code, but it's an easy fix
5. Ban [REDACTED 2]

For future reference, it's very easy for Trike to look at who downvoted someone's account, so if you get questions about downvoting in the future I can run the same report.

If you need to verify my identity before you take action, let me know and we'll work something out.

-- Jack

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409Reliable Sources: The Story of David Gerard

162[moderator action] Eugine_Nier is now banned for mass downvote harassment

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Kawoomba12y-10

Let's stop with the reference class tennis. This community does have established and explicit rules, such as "no proposing violence, not even hypothetically". It is not like one of your parties, I suspect. And while you may tell someone to leave you alone, or to get out, I wouldn't say that official punishments against breaking inofficial "norms" are the rule. At least hopefully nowhere I'd like to be. Note how this community has grappled time and again with coming up with a clearly defined norm on this, which would decohere the congruence even if LW were like a party. Meet-ups have resorted to clip-on notes whether hugging is ok with that person. So much for implicit norms for social interaction.

Someone who engages in block downvoting would be sending a signal, using tools as were provided. What's the obsession with the punishment-concept? (Warning, flippant aside: Do we need a good public beating, or what?)

If it isn't applicable then what's wrong with TDT?

In a word, nothing. If you use TDT going off of "I don't want agents to be punished for actions against which there are no rules", then TDT will include that when giving you the optimal course of action. If you use TDT going off of "I don't care whether agents are punished for actions against which there are no rules", then it won't include that. It's the reason why paperclippers and anti-paperclippers both can use TDT. TDT doesn't judge your preferences :-).

Kaj_Sotala12y00

This community does have established and explicit rules, such as "no proposing violence, not even hypothetically".

The rules also explicitly include a no harassment of individual users clause.

4ChristianKl12y

That doesn't tell you everything there to know about hugging. There are still issues like the length of the hug that isn't fixed by the rules. Especially in a community of munchkins you don't want to allow people to game the rules by moving exactly within them but violating their spirit.

6ChristianKl12y

Those rules are not in a place where a new member would easily find them. Some people even think there a rule against politics when there's no such thing on LW. [...] You were the person who started speaking about punishment. For my part when I was forum moderator I didn't think of myself punishing weeds when I tried to rip them out of my healthy garden. I did ban people but not to punish them but because I thought the forum would be healthier without them.

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