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falenas108 comments on [meta] Policy for dealing with users suspected/guilty of mass-downvote harassment? - Less Wrong Discussion

28 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 06 June 2014 05:46AM

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Comment author: falenas108 06 June 2014 11:12:40PM 12 points [-]

I'm also one of those target. Literally every comment I have ever made has been downvoted, 10 downvotes a day, for a few months. This happened until whoever was doing it reached my oldest comment. Recent comments are also downvoted.

Not only is mass downvoting feel pretty terrible, it also messes up the purpose of voting. Voting is meant to be a signal of how useful the community thinks a person's comments are, and that's no longer true of my votes or any other victim of downvoting.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke comment score below threshold [+] (5 children)

Comment author: falenas108 07 June 2014 05:15:33PM 3 points [-]

I mean, yeah. This isn't true of everyone. But for a large portion of people, getting downvoted feels bad. Maybe the "proper" view of karma should be "the karma I receive is merely an indicator of how valuable/accurate the comment is, and I should adjust my view of that comment accordingly." But just because something is irrational doesn't mean I can change it, or that the effects aren't real. And this is fairly common, from what I can see.

As for the "valid expression" thing: It gives too much power to a single individual over the type of content that is here. From what I and some other victims of downvoting can tell, it is the action of a single, well-known user who has decided to downvote people who express a certain view. I am fairly confident (>80%) that at least a few people have been driven off this site from mass downvoting.

What this means is, one person can affect who is on the site in a somewhat substantial way, even if the community does not agree that this is a bad view.

(If you want, you can PM me for more details.)

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 07 June 2014 09:11:24PM 1 point [-]

I have also been block-downvoted a bit (at least it looked that way). And it doesn't feel good. No doubt. But it doesn't pay rent to cry over it.

The voting mechanism is a technical means to heavily structure transactions of influence, status and visibilty. It is comparable to money or the ability to use a phone. Sure. These do not stand in isolation. The technical means are used in conjunction with social norms and customs. But you can't expect people to not (try to) use the means available. And some technical means are just not easily policed by social norms.

The options are: Change the norms, change the technology (or both) or - e.g. if both don't pay off - accept that this combination has failed (or doomed to do so ultimately).

Comment author: RobbBB 14 June 2014 03:41:09AM 5 points [-]

A lot of people on LW seem to feel it's a problem that we don't talk much about our feelings on this site. It does seem like a rationality-conducive community should do a whole lot of talking about feelings without reducing them all to 'here's a True preference I fully approve of and shall optimize for' and 'here's an evil bad feeling I will expunge'. Responding to 'mass downvoting feels pretty terrible' with 'well, that's a feeling, feelings aren't relevant' or "it doesn't pay rent to cry over it" doesn't seem conducive to that goal.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 14 June 2014 07:37:08AM 0 points [-]

Hm, yes. I agree with this analysis. I focussed too much on the technicality of the voting mechanism which is a kind of inhumane given. Crying about a social norm become technical reality doesn't help. But saying 'get over it' do the underlying issue justice either. I should have taken the feelings more seriously.

Comment author: RobbBB 14 June 2014 09:27:40AM 0 points [-]

Glad we agree. This is in large part a tone issue. It's still reasonable to ask why someone thinks the existence of feeling X supports policy decision Y; I think that can be done without sounding dismissive.

falenas108 comments on [meta] Policy for dealing with users suspected/guilty of mass-downvote harassment? - Less Wrong Discussion

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