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Larks comments on A Parable of Elites and Takeoffs - Less Wrong Discussion

23 Post author: gwern 30 June 2014 11:04PM

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Comment author: Larks 30 June 2014 11:14:25PM 0 points [-]

Good story! The bit about Nacirema's rival being 'to the east' and an 'orietal despotism' and 'angry at historical interference in its domestic affairs by Seilla & Nacirema' gave the game away a little early though.

Comment author: gwern 30 June 2014 11:24:36PM *  4 points [-]

Really? The wording was supposed to make it look like China. What made you think USSR? I thought relatively few people knew about Western involvement in the Russian Revolution compared to stuff like the Opium Wars etc.

Comment author: Larks 02 July 2014 01:00:36AM 0 points [-]

Ahhh, maybe. I used that, plus the fact that the US probably net aided the Reds in China during their civil war.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 01 July 2014 04:35:13PM 0 points [-]

I figured at first that you were blending multiple real-life narratives. But when I saw 'Seilla', that told me 'It's Nukes'. Or rather, 'from now on, it's probably going to be nukes'. After all, you had very early on

Unfortunately, it was hurriedly decided to use an early prototype outside the lab in an impoverished foreign country.

That's simply not how it went 70 years ago.

Comment author: gwern 01 July 2014 05:10:32PM 3 points [-]

But when I saw 'Seilla', that told me 'It's Nukes'.

Ah. Hm... I wasn't even referring to the WWII Allies there, I was referring to Western involvement (particularly the USA & Triple Entente) in the Russian Revolution supporting the Whites. Perhaps I could use "Nacirema and Threefold Understanding"?

That's simply not how it went 70 years ago.

Yes, it is. The decision was indeed hurried. They were early prototypes. The use was outside the lab. The country was indeed a foreign country. The country was impoverished by our standards, and impoverished by the standards of the day before and definitely impoverished after years of embargo, war, fire-bombing, wasted military expenditures, and destruction of the labor force. The Axis countries were poor even before the war. (If you are under the mistaken impression that Germany, for example, was 'rich' or 'heavily industrialized' or even comparable to England or America per capita, I suggest you read Tooze's The Wages of Destruction.)

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 01 July 2014 05:34:47PM 0 points [-]

One teeensy problem. The technology you are referring to here is not the same technology that had been alluded to in the previous paragraph.

Comment author: gwern 01 July 2014 05:51:15PM 1 point [-]

The research that went into the bomb helped a lot with reactors. They're both nuclear fission.