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Nornagest comments on Downvote stalkers: Driving members away from the LessWrong community? - Less Wrong Discussion

39 Post author: Ander 02 July 2014 12:40AM

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Comment author: XiXiDu 03 July 2014 03:28:52PM *  4 points [-]

I call it an ignoble personal attack which has no place on this forum.

Sorry. It wasn't meant as an attack, just something that came to my mind reading the comment by Chris Hallquist.

My initial reply was based on the following comment by Yudkowsky:

I'm really impressed by Facebook's lovely user experience - when I get a troll comment I just click the x, block the user and it's gone without a trace and never recurs.

And regarding narcissism, the definition is: "an inflated sense of one's own importance and a deep need for admiration."

See e.g. this conversation between Ben Goertzel and Eliezer Yudkowsky (note that MIRI was formerly known as SIAI):

Striving toward total rationality and total altruism comes easily to me. […] I’ll try not to be an arrogant bastard, but I’m definitely arrogant. I’m incredibly brilliant and yes, I’m proud of it, and what’s more, I enjoy showing off and bragging about it. I don’t know if that’s who I aspire to be, but it’s surely who I am. I don’t demand that everyone acknowledge my incredible brilliance, but I’m not going to cut against the grain of my nature, either. The next time someone incredulously asks, “You think you’re so smart, huh?” I’m going to answer, “Hell yes, and I am pursuing a task appropriate to my talents.” If anyone thinks that a Friendly AI can be created by a moderately bright researcher, they have rocks in their head. This is a job for what I can only call Eliezer-class intelligence.

Also see e.g. this comment by Yudkowsky:

Unfortunately for my peace of mind and ego, people who say to me "You're the brightest person I know" are noticeably more common than people who say to me "You're the brightest person I know, and I know John Conway". Maybe someday I'll hit that level. Maybe not.

Until then... I do thank you, because when people tell me that sort of thing, it gives me the courage to keep going and keep trying to reach that higher level.

...and from his post...

When Marcello Herreshoff had known me for long enough, I asked him if he knew of anyone who struck him as substantially more natively intelligent than myself. Marcello thought for a moment and said "John Conway—I met him at a summer math camp." Darn, I thought, he thought of someone, and worse, it's some ultra-famous old guy I can't grab. I inquired how Marcello had arrived at the judgment. Marcello said, "He just struck me as having a tremendous amount of mental horsepower," and started to explain a math problem he'd had a chance to work on with Conway.

Not what I wanted to hear.

And this kind of attitude started early. See for example what he wrote in his early "biography":

I think my efforts could spell the difference between life and death for most of humanity, or even the difference between a Singularity and a lifeless, sterilized planet [...] I think that I can save the world, not just because I’m the one who happens to be making the effort, but because I’m the only one who can make the effort.

Also see this video:

So if I got hit by a meteor right now, what would happen is that Michael Vassar would take over responsibility for seeing the planet through to safety, and say ‘Yeah I’m personally just going to get this done, not going to rely on anyone else to do it for me, this is my problem, I have to handle it.’ And Marcello Herreshoff would be the one who would be tasked with recognizing another Eliezer Yudkowsky if one showed up and could take over the project, but at present I don’t know of any other person who could do that, or I’d be working with them.

Comment author: Nornagest 03 July 2014 10:32:09PM *  5 points [-]

regarding narcissism, the definition is: "an inflated sense of one's own importance and a deep need for admiration."

That's the dictionary definition. When throwing around accusations of mental pathology, though, it behooves one not to rely on pattern-matching to one-sentence definitions; it overestimates the prevalence of problems, suggests the wrong approaches to them, and tends to be considered rude.

Having a lot of ambition and an overly optimistic view of intelligence in general and one's own intelligence in particular doesn't make you a narcissist, or every fifteen-year-old nerd in the world would be a narcissist.

(That said, I'm not too impressed with Eliezer's reasons for moving to Facebook.)