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Luke_A_Somers comments on Why I Am Not a Rationalist, or, why several of my friends warned me that this is a cult - Less Wrong Discussion

12 Post author: Algernoq 13 July 2014 05:54PM

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Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 13 July 2014 08:01:39PM *  4 points [-]

So what's the bailey, here? You make it seem like having obviously true premises is a bad thing.

Note, a progressive series of less firmly held claims are NOT Motte and Bailey, if you aren't vacillating on what each means.

Comment author: DanielLC 14 July 2014 12:54:13AM *  2 points [-]

It's a problem if anyone ends up sneaking in connotations.

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 14 July 2014 12:26:45PM 3 points [-]

Yes, that's what an example would look like. Can anyone provide any?

Comment author: Algernoq 20 July 2014 04:13:55AM *  1 point [-]

To paraphrase someone else's example, the motte is that science/reason helps people be right, and the bailey is that the LW memeplex is all correct and the best use of one's time (the memeplex including maximum support of abstract research about "friendly" AI, frequent attendance of LW self-help events, cryonics, and evangelizing Rationalism).

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 20 July 2014 06:28:14PM *  0 points [-]

Here's the problem with your attempting to apply Motte and Bailey to that:

If challenged on those other things, we do not reply that 'rationalism is just science/reason helps people be right, how could you possibly oppose it?' Well, except for the last, which really seems like that actually addresses the problem.

So, it's just a perfectly ordinary (and acceptable) sequence of progressively more controversial claims, and not a Motte-and-Bailey system.

Comment author: Algernoq 21 July 2014 10:02:34PM 1 point [-]

Different members act as different parts of the motte and bailey: some argue for extreme things; others say those extreme things are not "real" Rationalism

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 22 July 2014 02:57:51PM 0 points [-]

That structure makes it not motte and bailey - the motte must be friendly to the bailey, not hostile to it!