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buybuydandavis comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, July 2014, chapter 102 - Less Wrong Discussion

7 Post author: David_Gerard 26 July 2014 11:26AM

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Comment author: skeptical_lurker 27 July 2014 02:11:25PM *  2 points [-]

How many billion people would be better off if allowed to immigrate to GB?

...

You can't fit billions of people in the UK. ( I guess that's not what you meant, but that's what it sounds like)

But a libertarian utilitarian would have his work cut out for him to overcome the basic tenets of non initiation of force and weighing everyone's utility equally to justify limiting immigration.

Well, an absolute libertarian could of course not justify the state doing anything. And a utilitarian could come up with arguments against unrestricted immigration - for one thing, perhaps it would be better to maintain at least some border controls but increase foreign aid? I'm not suggesting this is a good idea, it just doesn't seem immediatly ridiculous.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 28 July 2014 12:26:29AM 2 points [-]

it just doesn't seem immediatly ridiculous.

But it cuts against the grain of the fundamental premises of both ideologies. That's what I'm saying. The zero order application of both ideologies leads to open borders.

an absolute libertarian could of course not justify the state doing anything.

Not true. A state could always justly protect people willing to be protected from initiation of force.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 28 July 2014 12:59:23AM 2 points [-]

Not true. A state could always justly protect people willing to be protected from initiation of force.

Fair enough.

But it cuts against the grain of the fundamental premises of both ideologies. That's what I'm saying. The zero order application of both ideologies leads to open borders.

Yes, I agree that open boarders is the most obvious policy for a libertarian utilitarian, although more from the libertarian POV. Utilitarianism requires thinking long-term - redistribution of wealth by tax is clearly a utilitarian good in the short term, but in the longer term it might become harder to incentivise useful work and so the issue is not so clear cut. This is why its possible to be libertarian utilitarian, rather than a communist utilitarian.

In the same manner, the long-term effects of absolute open boarders might be quite negative.