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NancyLebovitz comments on Open thread, July 28 - August 3, 2014 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: polymathwannabe 28 July 2014 08:27PM

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Comment author: sediment 28 July 2014 10:21:55PM *  60 points [-]

I recently made a dissenting comment on a biggish, well-known-ish social-justice-y blog. The comment was on a post about a bracelet which one could wear and which would zap you with a painful (though presumably safe) electric shock at the end of a day if you hadn't done enough exercise that day. The post was decrying this as an example of society's rampant body-shaming and fat-shaming, which had reached such an insane pitch that people are now willing to torture themselves in order to be content with their body image.

I explained as best I could in a couple of shortish paragraphs some ideas about akrasia and precommitment in light of which this device made some sense. I also mentioned in passing that there were good reasons to want to exercise that had nothing to do with an unhealthy body image, such as that it's good for you and improves your mood. For reasons I don't fully understand, these latter turned out to be surprisingly controversial points. (For example, surreally enough, someone asked to see my trainer's certificate and/or medical degree before they would let me get away with the outlandish claim that exercise makes you live longer. Someone else brought up the weird edge case that it's possible to exercise too much, and that if you're in such a position then more exercise will shorten, not lengthen, your life.)

Further to that, I was accused of mansplaining twice. and then was asked to leave by the blog owner on grounds of being "tedious as fuck". (Granted, but it's hard not to end up tedious as fuck when you're picked up on and hence have to justify claims like "exercise is good for you".)

This is admittedly minor, so why am I posting about it here? Just because it made me realize a few things:

  • It was an interesting case study in memeplex collision. I felt like not only did I hold a different position to the rest of those present, but we had entirely different background assumptions about how one makes a case for said position. There was a near-Kuhnian incommensurability between us.
  • I felt my otherwise-mostly-dormant tribal status-seeking circuits fire up - nay, go into overdrive. I had lost face and been publicly humiliated, and the only way to regain the lost status was to come up with the ultimate putdown and "win" the argument. (A losing battle if ever there was one.) It kept coming to the front of my mind when I was trying to get other things done and, at a time when I have plenty of more important things to worry about, I wasted a lot of cycles on running over and over the arguments and formulating optimal comebacks and responses. I had to actively choose to disengage (in spite of the temptation to keep posting) because I could see I had more invested in it and it was taking up a greater cognitive load than I'd ever intended. This seems like a good reason to avoid arguing on the internet in general: it will fire up all the wrong parts of your brain, and you'll find it harder to disengage than you anticipated.
  • It made me realize that I am more deeply connected to lesswrong (or the LW-osphere) than I'd previously realized. Up 'til now, I'd thought of myself as an outsider, more or less on the periphery of this community. But evidently I've absorbed enough of its memeplex to be several steps of inference away from an intelligent non-rationalist-identifying community. It also made me more grateful for certain norms which exist here and which I had otherwise gotten to take for granted: curiosity and a genuine interest in learning the truth, and (usually) courtesy to those with dissenting views.
Comment author: NancyLebovitz 29 July 2014 01:25:32PM 4 points [-]

I wasn't sure about doing discussion of the specific point, but other people are....

http://www.moveandbefree.com/blog/laziness-doesnt-exist

Here's an example from someone who believes strongly in cultivating internal motivation-- the opposite of shocking yourself if you don't do enough crudely monitored exercise.

The punishment approach to exercise arguably makes people less likely to exercise at all, and I think it increases the risk of injuries from exercise.

There really is a cultural problem-- how popular is the approach from the link compared to The Biggest Loser and boot camps for civilians?

Sidetrack: I'm imagining a shock bracelet to discourage involvement in pointless internet arguments. How would it identify them? Would people use it?

Comment author: [deleted] 30 July 2014 11:46:21AM *  4 points [-]

Sidetrack: I'm imagining a shock bracelet to discourage involvement in pointless internet arguments. How would it identify them?

That's probably a FAI-complete problem. See also: http://xkcd.com/810/

Would people use it?

A thing I would like is this. I would totally enable this on LW if it was an option. (And if someone volunteered to write a Firefox plugin to achieve the same client-side, they'd have all my gratefulness.)

Comment author: Bakkot 05 August 2014 02:12:58AM 6 points [-]

Done. Client-side version, that is.