And apparently, part of doing as the Romans do is not starting threads asking what the Romans do. Because that's "passive aggressive".
You started this thread with the title "Inquiry into community norms" yet you don't seem to be interested in learning what the community norms happen to be but want to argue that they are simply wrong and should be replaced what you are used to.
Pretending to do one thing while actually trying to do the other is what being passive aggressive is about.
You have said that "sometimes" it's beneficial to call someone a liar. Yet you say that calling someone's behavior uncivil is not beneficial. And since you're saying that my behavior is uncivil, it follows that your behavior is also uncivil.
I don't have any general rules about calling people uncivil or liars but look at specific cases. You seem to search for a general rule that people shouldn't call others uncivil or liars, and I don't believe in such rules.
Again, as I argue in this post I don't put much value on whether or not you label me behavior as uncivil.
In this case you opened a thread with the title "Inquiry into community norms" and I answer by pointing you towards how your own behavior differs from standard community norms. For that goal it's useful to use certain labels to be able to communicate clearly.
If you care about how people interact with you, how can you possibly not care how people label you? Gwern's behavior was increasing my inclination to interact with him in a way that would likely provide less utility.
You reacted to it in a way that isn't friendly and that doesn't provide utility. While Gwern might share some responsibility for that, you share the core responsibility for your behavior. At that point you could have simply ended the discussion to avoid anyone of you wasting further time with it. You could have spend your time elsewhere with more utility.
"If you can't have a calm, rational, and civil conversation about this, then I will modify my behavior towards you in a manner likely to result in less utility towards you"
No. Rather "If you can't have a calm, rational, and civil conversation about this, then I will will see no utility in continuing to interact with you". It's not about punishing other people. It's about acting in your own self interest not to engage in low value discussions that don't bring you utility.
And what is the point of describing your hypotheses, if you have already foreclosed any possibility of updating away from it?
There are many cases where it makes sense to explain someone an idea that's accepted scientific knowledge to help spread scientific knowledge. Most professors who teach physics 101 don't update their beliefs about physics because of the interaction with their students. They update their beliefs about physics when talking with colleagues that are well past physics 101.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating that you should do something different. I have no problem with cultural diversity. On the other hand if you want that people treat you in a certain way, than it could be beneficial for you to interact with them in a way that's conductive towards your goals.
You started this thread with the title "Inquiry into community norms" yet you don't seem to be interested in learning what the community norms happen to be but want to argue that they are simply wrong and should be replaced what you are used to.
I think that this is a blatant misrepresentation of my position, and I think that I have corrected you on multiple occasions. I am getting tired of repeating myself.
...I don't have any general rules about calling people uncivil or liars but look at specific cases. You seem to search for a general rule t
Apparently, I am not entitled to be treated with basic civility. Or, at least, not according to gwern. It started when gwern wrote
>>All you're saying is that Saddam called the USA's bluff and was wrong and it was disastrous. That could EASILY have happened with an attempt by the US to demand inspections from Russia.
>Um, no, because the USSR had no reason to think and be correct in thinking it served a useful role for the USA which meant the threats were bluffs that were best ridden out lest it damage both allies' long-term goals.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/kfd/a_parable_of_elites_and_takeoffs/b1xz
I read this as saying the USSR should call the bluff, which made no sense in relation to gwern's other posts. When I asked whether this was actually what was intended, gwern got pissed off, insisted that there was no way a good faith reading could see the post as saying that, and accused me of deliberately misunderstanding. I have bent over backwards to resolve this civilly, but my repeated attempts to get gwern to explain how I had misunderstood the sentence achieved nothing but the accusation that I was making an “underhanded” effort to get gwern to respond. Despite not being willing to discuss the matter in *that* thread, gwern brought the matter up in a comment thread for a completely different article. Throughout our encounters, gwern has been incredibly rude, referring to me as an “idiot” and “troll” (rather hypocritical, given the ridiculously silly claims made by gwern, such as that "A, therefore, A" is not a circular argument), and generally treating me with an utter lack of respect. And in defense, gwern has pointed to high karma and being here a long time as making any accusation of inappropriate behavior “presumptuous”. Because apparently, the popular kids can't be criticized by mere common folk.
Looking at the stats, gwern is indeed the top recent contributor, which makes this behavior all the more worthy of comment. If some random poster were being rude, that would be worrisome, but the fact that the top contributor thinks that a high karma score is license to egregiously violate Wheton's rule suggests that there may be something wrong with the site as a whole.
EY has referred to a need to have this be a “Well-Kept Garden”. So I would like to know whether gwern's behavior is the sort of thing that people here think is acceptable in this garden.