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cameroncowan comments on Open thread, 25-31 August 2014 - Less Wrong Discussion
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I am working on the post neoliberal wikipedia article and I wanted to see what people thought should be included. I've pulled together some resources and its something of interest and so I'd like to see what people think should be included including prominent theorists and so on.
What exactly is post-neoliberalism?
Post-neoliberialism is the economic theories and policies that are coming out of the neoliberal (think Milton Friedman) economics of the mid 20th century. This is most pronounced in South America where Neoliberal thinking as proposed by the Chicago School (Milton Friedman and company) was most widely practiced. Many of these governments are trying to balance the need of industry and companies to support the countries they do business in as well as provide for growth and jobs thereby. They are trying to balance the socialist past with free markets and globalization. So this article will address common theories and their theorists, policies, and other decisions being made in regards to the move away from Neoliberal economic philosophy.
Do you actually mean "coming out of" or do you mean "expected to replace"? Because economic theories coming out of neoliberal economics would probably be called "neoliberal".
Anywhere other than Chile?
All in all you seem to talking about economic theories of development. There are a lot of those. Why do you think it's useful to stick a "post-neoliberal" moniker on them, especially given that Wikipedia seems to think that "neoliberal" is a pejorative term used mostly by people who don't like markets?
Perú and Colombia for the last couple decades.
Any links or other evidence that Peru and Colombia were practicing specifically neoliberalism and not just sane policy (e.g. based on the idea that "markets work pretty well most of the time, better than the alternatives, anyway")?
Assorted links:
http://www.solidarity-us.org/site/node/709
http://colombiajournal.org/colombias-neoliberal-madness.htm
http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/poverty-matters/2011/jun/06/colombia-amoral-development-uribe
http://www.cepal.org/publicaciones/xml/1/20061/dancourt.pdf
http://upsidedownworld.org/main/peru-archives-76/4956-peru-passes-a-packet-of-neoliberal-reforms-erodes-environmental-protections-and-labor-rights
http://citizenspress.org/editorials/neoliberalism-in-latin-america
Incidentally, we appear to have very different ideas of what constitutes sane policy. I support state control over essential services (education, healthcare, agriculture, energy) and strong regulations for everything else.
Ah, I see.
The US is a neoliberal country, then, is it?
It's very difficult to give an answer. For example, drug and food safety regulations are stricter in the U.S. than in Colombia (drugs are sold here which the FDA wouldn't poke with a ten-meter-long stick). The U.S. subsidizes its own farmers while discouraging its trade partners from doing so. Its minimum wage, albeit heavily criticized, is three times that of Colombia. On the other hand, the U.S. finds itself in the indefensible position of being the only first-world country without universal healthcare, while Colombia has mandatory vacations, paid sick days, and better unionization.
The difficulty suggests to me that you concept of neoliberalism is not well-defined.
But, frankly, it looks to me like you're treating it as "not socialism".
And I still have no idea what post-neoliberalism is.
What "sane" happens to mean depends a lot on who's judging.
The IMF certainly pushed Latin American countries towards adopting neoliberal policies that they otherwise wouldn't have implemented.
True.
That happens a lot when you want to borrow other people's money :-)
As far as I can make out, the "post-" prefix in words such as postneoliberal, postcolonial, postmodern, etc. means not merely "after", but also "in reaction or opposition to", with connotations of supercession of the old and bad by the superior new and good. Claiming the "post-" moniker for oneself is a way of linguistically framing the situation (that is, casting a magic spell) to define oneself into having the high moral ground.
Sure, but you're talking about verbal jiu-jitsu techniques, basically. However here I just don't know which meaning the OP wants to associate with the label "post-liberal". There are a lot of ways the "superior new and good" can play out.
So is Friedman and the Chicago School supposed to be Neoliberal, or Post Neoliberal?
Milton Friedman would be neoliberal.
This comment is the first time I've ever heard the term "post-neoliberal".
I've never heard Milton Friedman, or anyone else prior to this, refer to Milton Friedman as a post neoliberal or neoliberal. And I've read a fair bit of Friedman, and watched many interviews of him.
It not a label that he uses to describe himself, the word neoliberal is mostly used by people on a left to label people like Milton Friedman.
So he's a neoliberal?
So who is a post neoliberal?
And what's the difference?
21st century socialist Latin American politicians like Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva would be post-neoliberal.
Joseph Stiglitz might qualify as far as thinkers go but most are probably Latin Americans we have never heard of.
Post neoliberal thought seeks to reincorporate some of the Keynesian economic policies that had been popular while preserving the competitiveness and growth potential that neoliberal economics offers. I'm still looking at foremost post-neoliberal theorists.
I find that a little difficult but yes the other comment is true it's more economic academic jargon.
From Googling the term it seems to be a word for South American politics. South American issues are generally not strongly debated in the English speaking internet. You probably find a better reception in some Spanish speaking venues.