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lmm comments on What are your contrarian views? - Less Wrong Discussion
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An AI which followed humanity's CEV would make most people on this site dramatically less happy.
Do you mean that, if shown the results, we would decide that we don't like humanity's CEV, or that humanity desires that we be unhappy?
Or possibly that if the majority of people got what they want, most people at LW would be incidentally made unhappy.
What Nancy said, so 1, and instrumentally but not terminally 2.
My intuition is in agreement with this, but I would love a more worked out description of your own thoughts (in part because my own thoughts aren't clear).
Most of humanity hates deviants and I don't think there's anything incoherent about that value.
I don't think you could get enough of humanity to agree on what should be considered "deviant" to make that value cohere.
What cross-section of humanity are you familiar with?
Familiar with? Using the most obvious definition I'd say only my girlfriend.
Due to where I live I have neighbours from a wide variety of races and religions and mostly a different class from the people I grew up with, which is different again from the class I work in now. I haven't lived for any substantial time in a different country. Does that answer your question?
So you know there are these people called "hipsters" who take pride in showing off their deviance and compete with one another to be deviant in interesting and original ways, right? Do you know many of them?
And everyone loves hipsters, right? Fellow hipsters of course support each other, but the wider world has nothing but respect and admiration for these people. Satisfying everyone's values would certainly mean there were more hipsters around and that hipsters were encouraged to be even more hipster-ey.
Well, hipsters often like each other and they are a decently large faction. Also, I think hipsters might be disliked because they are overly intentional about being deviant ("I was in to them before they were cool" as a way to try to one-up someone, etc.)
Yet the wider world still tends to assign them high status.
I don't think that's true. To my eyes hipsters are this generation's nouveau riche; people who have money and some kind of status, but don't conform to upper-class tastes. The wealth and status precedes the hipsterism, it doesn't derive from it.
Well previous generations' nouveau riche had better taste.
If by "CEV" you mean the mean reflectively-consistent utility function of all living humans... then yes, this is most likely true, and I consider it a major flaw of average-utilitarianism for FAI. Why so major? Because any decent science-fiction fan can invent three ways to deal with the mutual incompatibility of some people with some other people that doesn't involve just taking an average and punishing the unusual, off the top of his head, and so can most moral theorists other than average-utilitarians.