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ChristianKl comments on Questions on Theism - Less Wrong Discussion

23 Post author: Aiyen 08 October 2014 09:02PM

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Comment author: ChristianKl 08 October 2014 10:08:15PM *  2 points [-]

Most atheists simply don't believe that miracles exist.

When it comes to near death experiences I did have an experience that could validly labeled that way after 5 days of artificial coma. To me it's not very surprising that I did saw strange things will my brain was in a strange state. While that experience did influence me I don't take it as evidence that the supernatural exists.

But that isn't everything. Even if the supernatural exists, why should I believe that the God of the bible exists. The bible at various points simply doesn't make sense. I would rather go for something like Buddhism. Buddhism is much more coherent then Christianity.

Comment author: shminux 08 October 2014 10:46:43PM 2 points [-]

Most atheists simply don't believe that miracles exist.

I totally believe that miracles exist. I have seen one or two myself over the years. I just do not feel that attributing them to a supernatural force is useful in understanding the world. To clarify, by a miracle I mean a one-off extremely unlikely and unpredictable event which cannot be explained by the known scientific models. Something way out at the tail end of the Bell curve.

Comment author: hyporational 08 October 2014 11:52:31PM *  5 points [-]

Could you be more specific about those events?

Comment author: ChristianKl 09 October 2014 09:36:56AM 1 point [-]

I totally believe that miracles exist.

I still think that >50% of those people who self identify as atheists believe that miracles don't exist.

Comment author: Aiyen 08 October 2014 10:30:21PM 1 point [-]

A fair point; I'm considering the God of the Bible because the miracles I've heard of are specifically Christian, and therefore either they're valid (and therefore Christianity is true) or they're invalid (in which case even a false religion can produce a sizeable base of miracle claims, which would raise my probability for atheism to nearly 100%).

Comment author: shminux 08 October 2014 10:52:20PM *  1 point [-]

Note that there is an extreme selection effect in play. Vatican specifically seeks out confirming evidence for the miracles required for beatification of their favorite saint candidate. I know of no other religion that does that, at least not as extensively and systematically. Second, this process is heavily popularized in the media. Third, you, being Christian (whether Catholic or not) are even more likely to both hear about it and take it seriously.

If you simply seek out miraculous events without calling it such, odds are there will be much lower correlation between them and a saintly person being involved.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 08 October 2014 11:59:38PM 0 points [-]

Did you mean disconfirming evidence?

Comment author: DanielLC 09 October 2014 12:08:57AM 1 point [-]

Can you give some examples of miracles you've heard?

Comment author: ChristianKl 08 October 2014 11:01:37PM 0 points [-]

I'm considering the God of the Bible because the miracles I've heard of are specifically Christian, and therefore either they're valid (and therefore Christianity is true) or they're invalid

That's not true. Various beliefs systems do allow for intentions to manifest paranormal effects. You can also explain quite a lot with karma.

If you search a bit you will also find that Christianity isn't the only religion or belief system that makes miracle claims. Especially when it comes to straight bible Christianity. Quite a lot of New Age folks for example believe in reincarnation with is not compatible with the standard idea that the bible proposes.