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Azathoth123 comments on November 2014 Media Thread - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: ArisKatsaris 01 November 2014 03:42PM

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Comment author: RichardKennaway 03 November 2014 01:04:03PM 8 points [-]

We can't observe gods, but women exist empirically, and men have had to live with them all along. If the resulting body of experiences with women have condensed into a patriarchal tradition which puts women in a bad light - well, you can't blame that on theology, now, can you?

Of course you can. Theology is very easily observable. One can ask what the theology should be blamed on, but that goes back to the dawn of history and is but speculation and fog.

So here's some speculation for why patriarchal traditions are so prevalent, which I suppose has been at the back of my mind for as long as I've been aware of such issues, although I've never seen it stated so starkly as I am about to.

  1. Men are physically stronger than women.

  2. Without modern science, paternity cannot be observed, only enforced (see (1)).

It seems to me that these two facts are a sufficient explanation for the entire phenomenon of both religious and secular suppression of women. Men have been able to, men have wanted to, men have done. Might makes might. "If you want a picture of the past, imagine a man's boot stamping on a woman's face – for ever."

Explanations of how all women really want to be controlled by a strong man are window dressing, excreted by the virtual outcome pumps in the heads of those who find current mores uncongenial to continuing in that way, and who nowadays must use ideas as ammunition instead of stones.

Comment author: Azathoth123 04 November 2014 02:31:15AM *  8 points [-]

Theology is very easily observable.

Really, can you show me where?

  1. Men are physically stronger than women.

  2. Without modern science, paternity cannot be observed, only enforced (see (1)).

You left out a few important ones:

3. A man can potentially impregnate many women.

4. Having a man to help raise a woman's children greatly increases their prospects (this is the reason your (2) matters).

5. Unlike his sperm, a man's attention is a rather limited resource.

So, women would prefer to have children by an alpha male. They would also prefer to find a beta male to help raise them (they would like even more to have the alpha male raise them but see (5)). Men don't what to raise children that aren't theirs.

Comment author: polymathwannabe 06 November 2014 05:08:28PM 0 points [-]

Having a man to help raise a woman's children greatly increases their prospects

This is no longer true in countries where women can earn their own living.

So, women would prefer [...]

Don't generalize. Women are individuals, not a monolithic bloc.

Men don't what to raise children that aren't theirs.

Again, don't generalize. I'd much rather adopt an orphan than increase the amount of living people, all the while knowing my genes would much rather be copied. I don't fear my moral inclinations will be outbred; I can just teach them to my adopted children. Every man (and woman, and genderless person, and all variations thereupon) has hir own motivations and interests. Ignoring individual differences is one of the problems with this particular brand of sexism.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 05 November 2014 12:40:07PM 1 point [-]

Theology is very easily observable.

Really, can you show me where?

Any library or bookshop.

Comment author: [deleted] 04 November 2014 12:19:42PM 1 point [-]

they would like even more to have the alpha male raise them but see (5)

Markdown automatically renumbered your 5 to 3; if you want it not to, add backslashes i.e. 3\., 4\. and 5\..

Comment author: Azathoth123 05 November 2014 01:25:42AM 1 point [-]

Thanks, fixed.