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Ritalin comments on Neo-reactionaries, why are you neo-reactionary? - Less Wrong Discussion

10 Post author: Capla 17 November 2014 10:31PM

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Comment author: Ritalin 18 November 2014 10:09:13PM *  19 points [-]

That's standard preacher approach. Incendiary accusations to destroy everything you take for granted, then, when you're in tears and directionless, a promise of salvation if you follow their way.

Come to think of it, that's a pattern EY has used extensively as well... "Here's proof that religion is insane and most people are predictably and systematically stupid, including yourself. Now believe in the Singularity, general self-improving artificial intelligence, cryogeny, space expansionism, and libertarianism!"

Comment author: ChristianKl 19 November 2014 05:26:45PM 11 points [-]

Eliezer doesn't really push libertarianism.

Comment author: [deleted] 19 November 2014 04:53:24PM *  7 points [-]

Come to think of it, that's a pattern EY has used extensively as well... "Here's proof that religion is insane and most people are predictably and systematically stupid, including yourself. Now believe in the Singularity, general self-improving artificial intelligence, cryogeny, space expansionism, and libertarianism!"

The hilarious thing about this is that Eliezer isn't even very hardcore about libertarianism, and most LWers on the surveys assign very low probability to cryonics actually working, including those who've actually signed up. The Preacher's Way works, whether or not you actually intend it to do so!

(Which is why it's epistemically polite simply not to speak that way at all.)

(And besides which, the human condition is an entirely valid concern that we ought to be moving from the realms of myth and religion to the realm of rationality. It is to my great and lifelong dismay that one signals intelligence, education, enlightenment, and general rationality by loudly dismissing all questions of value, feeling, or the human condition.)

Comment author: [deleted] 20 November 2014 04:13:48AM 6 points [-]

The hilarious thing about this is that Eliezer isn't even very hardcore about libertarianism

Are you joking, or do you really think that total open borders doesn't count as hardcore libertarianism?

Comment author: [deleted] 20 November 2014 08:09:52AM 2 points [-]

Not joking at all. Total open borders, by the usual tribal-allegiance measure of political positioning, is a hardcore liberal (in the Democrats-and-blue-tribe sense) position. Most actually-existing libertarians are xenophobes.

Of course, if the Libertarian Party has actually put open borders in its election platforms, then tell me and I'll update.

But no, he's not hardcore libertarian, in the sense of anarcho-capitalist or deontological proprietarian. All utilitarian libertarians are non-hardcore.

Also, I do recall him once self-labeling as "small-l libertarian", which very much implies non-hardcoreism.

Comment author: roystgnr 21 November 2014 05:25:41PM 18 points [-]
Comment author: [deleted] 22 November 2014 04:49:41PM 5 points [-]

Thank you, and now I know.

Comment author: fortyeridania 21 November 2014 08:01:19AM 5 points [-]

I do recall him once self-labeling as "small-l libertarian", which very much implies non-hardcoreism

I do not think this is true. I think it just implies non-affiliation with the Libertarian Party. Many hardcore libertarians reject the Libertarian Party.

Comment author: Ritalin 20 November 2014 12:03:53AM 1 point [-]

Weird, I thought that link would lead to Straw Nihilist.

Comment author: [deleted] 20 November 2014 08:14:44AM 3 points [-]

Good point. Straw Vulcan is rationality-signaling for STEM majors, and Straw Nihilist is the same for humanities majors.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 19 November 2014 05:23:38PM *  2 points [-]

You should care about people in alternate universes. (Am I getting this right?)

Also, it's at least somewhat plausible that you're living in a simulation.

Comment author: Ritalin 20 November 2014 12:11:24AM *  2 points [-]

Well, we've never caught Nature glitching or bugging or even simplifying its calculations, and absence of evidence is evidence of absence. That we're living in a simulation is about as plausible as the Abrahamic narrative, about as falsifiable, and about as proven.

Comment author: roystgnr 21 November 2014 05:19:47PM *  2 points [-]

How would we recognize "simplified" calculations? If the "next level up" laws of physics differ from ours, their idea of what is cheap or expensive to compute might also differ.

Even if the upper physics was sufficiently similar to ours to share some characteristics (e.g. the need for large computations to be parallelized and the expense of parallel communication), and our laws of physics were simplified in a way to accommodate those characteristics (e.g. with a limit to the speed of information propagation), would we recognize that simplification as such, or would we just call it another law of physics and insist that we've never seen it simplified?

Comment author: Azathoth123 20 November 2014 04:00:23AM 2 points [-]

Well, we've never caught Nature glitching or bugging or even simplifying its calculations

Um, how would you tell? Wouldn't glitches or simplified calculations appear as just additional laws of nature.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 20 November 2014 05:08:46AM 2 points [-]

I think of glitches as being small breaks in the laws of nature.

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 20 November 2014 12:14:31AM 2 points [-]

I'm inclined to think that people (especially modern skeptical people) would find ways to paper over small glitches.

Comment author: dxu 23 November 2014 10:13:26PM 1 point [-]

While I can't assign a reliable probability to the hypothesis "you're living in a simulation", I attach roughly zero decision-theoretic significance to the possibility. Meaning: since there's nothing I can do to affect this, I can safely go on with my life without giving it much thought beyond the usual philosophical ponderings I do whenever I'm in a contemplative mood.

Comment author: dxu 23 November 2014 10:06:14PM *  1 point [-]

"Here's proof that religion is insane and most people are predictably and systematically stupid, including yourself.

This doesn't seem too implausible. I have no trouble believing that religion is false ("insane" is an incendiary term that I do not believe should be invoked in a non-clinical context due to triggering most people's "mind-killed" modes), as well as believing that people are predictably and systematically irrational (same deal with "stupid"). Are you arguing against this?

Now believe in the Singularity, general self-improving artificial intelligence, cryogeny, space expansionism, and libertarianism!"

I have not seen Eliezer ever advocate for his personal views on these topics outside of posts dedicated specifically to said topics. Most posts in the Sequences just talk about basic techniques for rationality, without ever mentioning any of the stuff you've listed. Indeed, the two major prongs of his worldview--rationality and transhumanism--seem to be largely (almost entirely) detached from each other. I'm having a hard time seeing this "preacher approach" you're talking about in Eliezer's writings.

Comment author: Ritalin 24 November 2014 11:08:26PM *  1 point [-]

Are you arguing against this?

Most emphatically not. I'm very glad to have discovered that, and I'm grateful for EY's impassioned preaching, that made it seem immediately, crucially, urgently relevant. By comparison, when I read books like Think Fast and Slow, or watch shows like Crash Course Psychology or Earthlings 101. I feel like I'm just collecting a bunch of interesting, quaint. and curious trivia that aren't much of a factor in how I think of myself, the world, and my place in it. (And don't get me started on new Cosmos. NDG doesn't preach, he lectures. Carl Sagan at least used to wonder )