Open thread, Nov. 24 - Nov. 30, 2014

MrMind

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If it's worth saying, but not worth its own post (even in Discussion), then it goes here.

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I thought this article about coaching in pickup techniques kind of misses the point:

I Took A Class on How to Pick Up Women—But I Learned More About Male Anxiety

http://www.alternet.org/culture/i-took-class-how-pick-women-i-learned-more-about-male-anxiety

I posted in response:

For some reason we have this notion that the young man's "sexual debut," as the scientific literature about human sexuality calls it, happens as an organic developmental stage in the late teens, with a median age of around 17. If a 17 year old boy picked at random can probably figure out how to close the deal with a girl for the first time, this accomplishment certainly can't depend on coaching or life experience, because what the hell does a 17 year old boy know? But apparently a nontrivial number of boys in every generation miss this developmental window, and then they wind up in their 20's without an adult man's skill set for dealing with women, like the adult virgins who pay to receive instruction by alleged PUA's. If you have a teenage son, and you can see that girls don't find this boy sexually attractive, that has to affect how you view your son, and in a bad way. Perhaps we should consider earlier and more radical interventions into these boys' lives to help them to develop the adult man's skill set for relationships with women, instead of leaving this to the haphazard because of romantic nonsense that "the right girl will come along some day."

BTW, in case someone brings up the P-word, I'd like to know how seeing a prostitute will help a young man develop the skills he needs to get into sexual relationships through dating - because I just don't see the connection.

I'd like to know how seeing a prostitute will help a young man develop the skills he needs to get into sexual relationships through dating - because I just don't see the connection.

Dating and sex are related skills. I assume we agree a prostitute could give a good intro to sex. So why shouldn't she be a good dating coach too? The young man won't need to fear rejection from her, nor fear being talked about later, so they can role-play in emotional safety. She can still tell him what's going to cause rejection when he's not a customer, and what's going to... (read more)

22Viliam_Bur12y

Seeing sex as less "magical" could help reduce tension with trying to get sex. (By the way, the whole article seems to me like: "Look, some people have less social skills -- let's make fun of them! Oh, they are trying to overcome their weakness -- wow, that's even funnier!" The elephant in the room is that in our culture it is taboo to express empathy towards men and boys.)

0MrMind12y

I wouldn't be too much concerned. The article is a lot less dismissive of PUA than what is usually put forward, even on this site. Plus, it's not that La Ruina isn't another little Mystery clone. [...] Based on what I know of my culture (US or other European countries might differ), not even 17 yo boys who do get girls know better. They usually get them because of a combination of some better looks, wider social circle, inferior opinions on women. Those who apply for a PUA seminar are the ones who are trying to optimize their understanding of females, letting aside the fact that you cannot will yourself into being non-anxious. My opinion is that if they could be at ease around the opposite sex, they would wind up with a better sexual life than their "natural" peers.