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mushroom comments on Open thread, Nov. 24 - Nov. 30, 2014 - Less Wrong Discussion

4 Post author: MrMind 24 November 2014 08:56AM

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Comment author: [deleted] 24 November 2014 08:22:47PM *  1 point [-]

The year is 1800. You want to reduce existential-risk. What do you do?

Comment author: Alicorn 24 November 2014 08:24:17PM 11 points [-]

Are you a time-traveler or a native?

Comment author: [deleted] 24 November 2014 08:51:59PM *  2 points [-]

A native (but optionally a very insightful and visionary native).

EDIT: I said native, but all that I really want to avoid is an answer like "I would use all my detailed 21-st century scientific knowledge to do something that a native couldn't possibly do".

Comment author: Lumifer 24 November 2014 09:12:17PM 6 points [-]

all that I really want to avoid is an answer like "I would use all my detailed 21-st century scientific knowledge to do something that a native couldn't possibly do".

How about "I would use all my detailed 21-st century scientific knowledge to be concerned about something that a native couldn't possibly be concerned about"?

Comment author: [deleted] 24 November 2014 09:19:41PM 0 points [-]

Sure, if it leads to an interesting point.

For example, if you were trying to avoid suffering: "I would kill 12 year old Hitler" isn't very interesting, but "I would do BLAH to improve European relations" or "There's nothing I could do" are interesting.

Comment author: polymathwannabe 24 November 2014 10:28:59PM 0 points [-]

"I would kill 12 year old Hitler"

Did you mean 1800 or 1900?

Comment author: [deleted] 24 November 2014 11:01:06PM 3 points [-]

I didn't mean that example to refer to original question; I just wanted to demonstrate a vague but somewhat intuitive difference between "fair" and "unfair" use of future knowledge.

Comment author: Lumifer 24 November 2014 08:58:51PM 5 points [-]

Well, being concerned about existential risk in 1800 probably means you were very much impressed by Thomas Malthus' An Essay on the Principle of Population (published in 1798) and were focused on population issues.

Of course, if you were a proper Christian you wouldn't worry too much about X-risk anyway -- first, it's God's will, and second, God already promised an end to this whole life: the Judgement Day.

Comment author: Brillyant 25 November 2014 12:16:31AM 0 points [-]

Of course, if you were a proper Christian you wouldn't worry too much about X-risk anyway -- first, it's God's will, and second, God already promised an end to this whole life: the Judgement Day.

Still true today.

Comment author: Lumifer 25 November 2014 02:04:10AM 5 points [-]

Sure, but the percentage of fully believing Christians was much higher in 1800.

Comment author: polymathwannabe 24 November 2014 09:44:18PM *  0 points [-]

Vaccination for everyone! Aqueduct (AND toilets) for everyone!

Make good publicity for Mr. Volta's new chemical battery, and convince everyone of how ugly the world is when tainted by coal smoke. This has a dual purpose: ease the way for early development of electric cars, thus fighting global warming, and delay Western meddling in the Middle East for oil extraction purposes, which contributed largely to the mess the region is now.

Find Mr. Heinrich Marx at his law practice in Trier and quietly castrate him.

Popularize DIY production of blue cheese and thus increase the chances that someone playing with Penicillium fungi will get creative.

Recruit would-be Temperance Leagues and redirect their strength to strangle the tobacco industry in its crib.

Edited to add: only massive distribution of aqueducts and toilets would be obvious to a true native of 1800.

Comment author: ChristianKl 25 November 2014 08:52:08AM 3 points [-]

Batteries still mean that you need electricity and that means burning coal.

Comment author: fubarobfusco 25 November 2014 02:40:28AM 2 points [-]

Uranium was discovered in 1789 in Saxony. What's the minimal technological path from there to reasonably-safe reactors? I would imagine it involves not only the obvious physics, but photography (to detect radiation) and significant advances in metallurgy (to refine ores) ....

Comment author: imuli 25 November 2014 07:03:37PM 0 points [-]

Start an insurance company with a focus on risk mitigation.

(Amass resources, collect information, you get the idea.)

Comment author: lmm 25 November 2014 11:32:25PM -1 points [-]

I give Napoleon a hand, on the basis that he was one of the more scientifically-minded world leaders, and the theory that a strong France makes our future more multipolar. For the same reason I try to spread the notion of the limited-liability corporation in the islamic world (no idea how to do that though). I might try to convince nations of the (AIUI genuine) non-profitability of colonialism.

Comment author: TimS 26 November 2014 04:59:32PM 3 points [-]

If you want multi-polar, Napoleon is the last person you should help. He was clearly acting to reduce the number of Great Powers to 1. He even succeed for a bit re: Prussia & Austria.

Alternatively, if he wins, how do you prevent France v. USA instead of Russia v. USA.

Comment author: lmm 27 November 2014 06:46:44PM 0 points [-]

Alternatively, if he wins, how do you prevent France v. USA instead of Russia v. USA.

If it ends up more even and more positive-sum, I call that a win.

Comment author: TimS 03 December 2014 12:01:06PM 1 point [-]

Why would you expect any different outcome at all? Two-power dynamics often unstable - absent external stabilizer like MAD.

Comment author: Lumifer 26 November 2014 05:03:20PM 0 points [-]

if he wins, how do you prevent France v. USA instead of Russia v. USA.

You just have to keep the Canadian-Mexican border quiet :-)