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MathiasZaman comments on Does utilitarianism "require" extreme self sacrifice? If not why do people commonly say it does? - Less Wrong Discussion

7 Post author: Princess_Stargirl 09 December 2014 08:32AM

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Comment author: MathiasZaman 09 December 2014 09:20:53AM 2 points [-]

If you want to completely optimize your life for creating more global utilons then, yes, utilitarianism requires extreme self-sacrifice. The time you spend playing that video-game or hanging out with friends netted you utility/happiness, but you could have spend that time working and donating the money to an effective charity. That tasty cheese you ate probably made you quite happy, but it didn't maximize utility. Better switch to the bare minimum you need to work the highest-paying job you can manage and give all the money you don't strictly need to an effective charity.

Of course, humans (generally) can't manage that. You won't be able to function at a high-paying job if you can't occasionally indulge in some tasty food or if your Fun-bar is in the red all the time. (Or, for that matter, most of your other bars. You'll probably spend a lot of time lying on the floor crying if you live like this.

While it might be morally optimal for you to ignore your own needs and work on the biggest gains you can manage, this isn't something that can be required of (most) people. You can use utilitarianism as a framework to base you decisions on without giving up everything. Giving up 100% of your income to a good charity might be morally optimal, but [giving 10% still makes a huge impact[(https://www.givingwhatwecan.org) and allows you a comfortable life yourself.

I don't think being perfectly utilitarian is something (most) humans should strive for. Use it as guidelines to influence the world around you, but don't let it drive you crazy.

Or to quote someone on skype::

[Considering yourself a bad person because utilitarianism] is like saying Usain Bolt is slow because he runs at such a tiny fraction of the speed of light.

Comment author: buybuydandavis 09 December 2014 10:19:46AM *  4 points [-]

Of course, humans (generally) can't manage that.

People generally don't manage that. People learn what they can and can't do in Ranger School.

This is another case where it just seems there are multiple species of homo sapiens. Or maybe I'm just a Martian.

When other people say "X is moral", they mean "I will say that 'X is moral', and will occasionally do X"?

I can almost make sense of it, if they're all just egoists, like me. My moral preferences are some of my many preferences. Sometimes I indulge my moral preferences, and sometimes my gustatory preferences. Moral is much like "yummy". Just because something is "yummy", it doesn't I plan on eating it all day, or that I plan to eat all day.

But that is simply not my experience on how the term "moral" is generally used. Moral seems to mean "that's my criteria to judge what I should and shouldn't do". That's how everyone talks, although never quite how everyone does. Has there been an egoist revolution, and I just never realized it?

I think people have expressed before being "The Occasional Utilitarian" (my term), devoting some time slices to a particular moral theory. And other times, not. "I'm a utilitarian, when the mood strikes me".

It reminds me of a talk I had with some gal years ago about here upcoming marriage. "Oh, we'll never get divorced, no way, no how, but if we do..." What's going through a person's head when they say things like that? It's just bizarre to me.

Years later, I was on a date at a sex show and bumped into her. She was divorced.

Comment author: MathiasZaman 09 December 2014 11:26:29AM 2 points [-]

When other people say "X is moral", they mean "I will say that 'X is moral', and will occasionally do X"?

Knowing what is moral and acting on what is moral are two different things. Acting on what is moral is often hard, and people aren't known for their propensity to do hard things.

The divide between "I know what is moral" and "I act on what I know to be moral" exists in most moral theories with the possible exception (as far as I know, which isn't all that far) of egoism.