You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

Creutzer comments on Quotes Repository - Less Wrong Discussion

1 Post author: Dorikka 10 February 2015 04:36AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (87)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Creutzer 11 February 2015 01:40:43PM *  1 point [-]

Yes, but that's subjectivity one level higher, as it were: is quality X important? That's relative to a subject who makes the value judgment. But when X is "being liked", then quality X in itself is observer-relative, in a way that other things like the skill exercised by the creator are not (and "being liked by most people" also isn't).

Comment author: DanielLC 12 February 2015 03:23:40AM -1 points [-]

The skill exercised by the creator is every bit as subjective as the quality of what he makes. Being skilled just means consistently making things of high quality.

Comment author: Creutzer 13 February 2015 11:23:00AM 0 points [-]

Being skilled just means consistently making things of high quality.

Just... no. I am not talking about some vague thing such as "being skilled at writing", which you might be able to paraphrase as "consistently writing things of high quality". The kind of skill that I have in mind which might confer value on a work of art is basically the ability to do something very non-trivial which need not in any way involve a value judgment. A very simple example would be to paint something with realistic lighting.

Comment author: DanielLC 13 February 2015 08:01:38PM 0 points [-]

How is a painting exercising the creator's skill of painting something with realistic lighting (skill of the creator) any different from a painting having realistic lighting (quality of the creation)? A painting having realistic lighting is not observer-relative, but the importance of realistic lighting is. You can't objectively call the painting "good", you can only say it has realistic lighting. And given how many things there are that you can objectively grade a painting on, it's all too easy to only talk about the good qualities of paintings you like and the bad qualities of paintings you dislike.

Comment author: Toggle 17 February 2015 07:54:36AM *  0 points [-]

In my experience, virtuosity is often roughly measured by the answer to questions like "what fraction of the population could have achieved this goal?" or "how many hours of practice were required to gain the necessary skills for this?", depending on the circumstances in which the word is used. I suppose that's fairly objective, although not precise. If painter A could paint both X and Y, and many painters B, C, D... could paint X but not Y, that is some evidence that painting Y is more 'excellent' than X in some way that goes beyond preference.

It can also be used as a self-compliment on the part of an audience member; in this usage, it is implied that one must have a great deal of experience with the medium in order to appreciate the work.