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solipsist comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapter 104 - Less Wrong Discussion

8 Post author: b_sen 16 February 2015 01:24AM

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Comment author: solipsist 16 February 2015 04:33:16AM 10 points [-]

Snape's head snapped around, as Professor Sprout raised her wand, and the Potions Master managed to raise a wordless translucent ward between them. But the bolt that shot from Professor Sprout's wand was a dark brown that produced a surge of awful apprehension in Harry's mind; and the brown bolt made Severus's shield wink out before they touched, clipping the Potions Master's right arm even as he dodged. Professor Snape gave a muffled shriek and his hand spasmed, dropping his wand.

The next bolt that came from Sprout's wand was a bright red the color of a Stunning Hex, seeming to grow brighter and move faster even as it left her wand, accompanied by another surge of anxiety; and that blew the Potions Master into the door, dropping him motionless to the ground.

I interpret that as Legilimensed Sprout's magic is Voldemort's magic is Sense of Doom magic. But then how was the troll made immune to sunlight, when Harry touched the troll's skin directly?

Comment author: LauralH 18 February 2015 05:06:22AM 2 points [-]

I think that's more likely Quirrell actively casting that causes the anxiety.

Comment author: jkaufman 16 February 2015 11:24:14PM 2 points [-]

Legilimensed? I thought Sprout was Imperiused?

Comment author: solipsist 17 February 2015 12:04:18AM 7 points [-]

Nope. Quirrell on the possibility of Lucius framing Hermione:

"From a dark alley the black-clad form of Malfoy steps forth - he would go in person, for this - and speaks to her a single word."

"Imperio."

"Legilimens, rather," said Professor Quirrell. "I do not know if the Hogwarts wards would trigger for a returning Professor under the Imperius Curse. And if I do not know, Malfoy probably does not know either. But Malfoy is a perfect Occlumens at least; he might be able to use Legilimency. And for the target...perhaps Aurora Sinistra; none would question the Astronomy Professor moving about at night."

"Or even more obviously, Professor Sprout," said Harry. "Since she's the last person anyone would suspect."

The Defense Professor hesitated minutely. "Perhaps."

Comment author: polymathwannabe 17 February 2015 03:05:05PM -1 points [-]

I don't understand. How is Legilimens a method of mind control?

Comment author: Velorien 17 February 2015 03:55:27PM 1 point [-]

I've wondered this as well. Eliezer seems to think it is, as it's listed when one of the characters (I forget who) enumerates means of mind control including Imperius and the Confundus Charm. Possibly it's fanon?

The Potter Wiki cites Voldemort using Legilimency to send Harry visions and briefly possess him, though their connection seems like it ought to be a fairly unique case.

Comment author: dxu 17 February 2015 05:49:16PM *  2 points [-]

In HPMoR, at least, Moody was able to "reshape Harry to make him believe he was on fire", which implies Legilimency is more than just passive mind-reading.

Comment author: EricHerboso 16 February 2015 04:59:19AM 1 point [-]

I agree that legilimensed Sprout's magic is activating the sense of doom. But the troll was not legilimensed, so there's no reason for the sense of doom to activate.

I may be wrong, but intuitively it seems that when Voldemort causes Sprout to cast a spell, that spell counts as originating from Voldemort, not Sprout -- and that is what makes it activate the sense of doom. Whereas the troll was acting on its own accord, and so didn't activate the sense of doom.

Comment author: vericrat 16 February 2015 05:04:38AM 2 points [-]

I think Solipsist was trying to say that if Voldemort using Sprout to cast a spell counts as originating from Voldemort, then if Sprout (or some other Imperiused individual) cast a spell on the troll's skin, then Harry shouldn't have been able to touch the troll. Before, it was assumed that Harry was able to touch the enchanted troll (its skin had been enchanted to resist sunlight) because Voldemort hadn't directly enchanted it (Harry can't touch things Voldemort enchants, see the broomstick escape from Azkaban) but used an Imperiused confederate. Now, however, it seems that using the Imperiused confederate does not negate the issues arising between Harry and Voldemort's magic.

Comment author: sketerpot 16 February 2015 06:57:10AM 13 points [-]

An alternate interpretation is that Voldemort was strengthening a few of the spells that Sprout cast, as well as the spell that Tonks used to win the battle, and this use of his own magic was what caused Harry's doom-sense to tingle. If that's the case, then there would be none of his magic on the troll.

Comment author: hairyfigment 16 February 2015 05:23:37AM -1 points [-]

This is a very good point. Possibly premature answer: the Dark Lord Tom hired someone else to enchant the troll before sneaking it into Hogwarts. Then he cast a spell on the hireling.

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