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CellBioGuy comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapter 104 - Less Wrong Discussion

8 Post author: b_sen 16 February 2015 01:24AM

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Comment author: CellBioGuy 16 February 2015 05:00:18AM *  7 points [-]

Is it just me, or did several extremely verbose paragraphs full of questionable reasoning essentially boil down to 'everyone came at the same time so they must have had the same cause'?

EDIT: I mean it's a valid point to make. But it somehow comes from a big complicated tree of wild guesses rather than that statement.

Comment author: MarkusRamikin 16 February 2015 08:05:34AM *  5 points [-]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYyUUrga7kU
Do not question super thinking powers.

Though to be fair, the HPMoR chapter was waay better about it. EDIT: I liked it more on second reading, and even more on third. This isn't just about "same time", it's also things like "look at all the security your note from the future instructed you to discard".

Comment author: dxu 16 February 2015 05:49:09AM *  5 points [-]

There were many interlocking pieces of evidence already pointing to the truth of Q == V (I think readers were actually chastising Harry for not figuring it out earlier at some point); the perfect timing of this particular incident was simply the part that happened to break Harry's voluntary suspension of disbelief enough for him to actually start trying to piece it all together.

Comment author: roystgnr 16 February 2015 08:45:20AM 20 points [-]

As someone pointed out on Reddit, it's pretty suspicious that Harry figured everything out almost immediately after Snape hit him with a "Dispel Confusion".

Comment author: Izeinwinter 16 February 2015 03:49:21PM 3 points [-]

This would also neatly explain why Quirrelmort didn't see this coming "Snape does his level best to help Harry Potter" does not seem like the kind of outcome Q would consider very likely, so his overly complicated plot going off the rails there is perfectly reasonable.

Comment author: shminux 16 February 2015 05:38:03PM -1 points [-]

Yeah, this part of the chapter seems heavy with Rand-like author tract. The fake note analysis made up for it, though.

Comment author: dxu 17 February 2015 08:12:42PM *  0 points [-]

Why "Rand-like"?

Comment author: shminux 17 February 2015 08:59:08PM 0 points [-]

She is infamous for it... Here is a good parody from http://slatestarcodex.com/2015/01/25/a-philosopher-walks-into-a-coffee-shop/ :

Ayn Rand goes up to the counter. “What do you want?” asks the barista. “Exactly the relevant question. As a rational human being, it is my desires that are paramount. Since as a reasoning animal I have the power to choose, and since I am not bound by any demand to subordinate my desires to that of an outside party who wishes to use force or guilt to make me sacrifice my values to their values or to the values of some purely hypothetical collective, it is what I want that is imperative in this transaction. However, since I am dealing with you, and you are also a rational human being, under capitalism we have an opportunity to mutually satisfy our values in a way that leaves both of us richer and more fully human. You participate in the project of affirming my values by providing me with the coffee I want, and by paying you I am not only incentivizing you for the transaction, but giving you a chance to excel as a human being in the field of producing coffee. You do not produce the coffee because I am demanding it, or because I will use force against you if you do not, but because it most thoroughly represents your own values, particularly the value of creation. You would not make this coffee for me if it did not serve you in some way, and therefore by satisfying my desires you also reaffirm yourself. Insofar as you make inferior coffee, I will reject it and you will go bankrupt, but insofar as your coffee is truly excellent, a reflection of the excellence in your own soul and your achievement as a rationalist being, it will attract more people to your store, you will gain wealth, and you will be able to use that wealth further in pursuit of excellence as you, rather than some bureaucracy or collective, understand it. That is what it truly means to be a superior human.” “Okay, but what do you want?” asks the barista. “Really I just wanted to give that speech,” Rand says, and leaves.

It's not nearly as bad in chapter 104, but the similarity is hard to ignore.

Comment author: dxu 18 February 2015 01:56:54AM 4 points [-]

Really? I'm not seeing anything like that in Chapter 104. I know Rand has a heavy penchant for giant philosophical lectures, but I don't see any philosophical lectures in Chapter 104, big or small (at least beyond what EY normally inserts). Harry's revelation is just that: a revelation. Maybe I'm missing something; I don't know. Is there really any lecturing going on here?

Comment author: Luke_A_Somers 17 February 2015 02:48:39AM 1 point [-]

Not exactly. A lot of it was trying to figure out just what set of people had their presence unexplained. If some of them had perfectly understandable reasons for being there right then without intervention, then his new explanation would not need to cover them.

It turned out that everyone (perhaps except Snape) needed explanation, including himself, so it kind of looked like he ended up where he started, though he was on much firmer footing afterwards.

Comment author: hairyfigment 16 February 2015 05:41:51AM -1 points [-]

Ha, but it does start with a conviction that intelligent design is involved. I think that makes it better and not worse.

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