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skeptical_lurker comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapter 104 - Less Wrong Discussion

8 Post author: b_sen 16 February 2015 01:24AM

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Tags: fiction harry_potter fanfiction hpmor

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Comment author: linkhyrule5 16 February 2015 08:00:54AM *  8 points [-]

Hm.

So, as we approach the end of the fic, there's one question left that looks really hard.

Let's try to solve it!

...but in all seriousness: I expect Harry to solve Death before the end of the fic - it's too central to both Harry's current motive and thus the current plot arc, and Eliezer's motives in writing this fic, to avoid, even putting aside the conspicuous Peverell prophecy.

There is not enough time left for Harry to do this by learning some secret art or by putting his own spin on an existing spell. Therefore, this problem should be soluble with what Harry has on hand.

For now, I will treat Quirrelmort and Dumbledore (come on, you don't honestly think he's going to be absent for the big climactic duel of words and ideals, do you?) as resources - never mind how Harry convinces them for now.

  • Between Dumbledore and Quirrel, essentially any existing spell. This is known to be insufficient for the task.
  • Dumbledore has the Elder Wand. Harry has the Invisibility Cloak. Quirrel is highly implied to have the Stone of Resurrection. All three Hallows are gathered, and Harry seems to have activated something in that prophecy stone.
  • The Patronus 2.0.
  • The Killing Curse 2.0. Harry is never going to hate someone enough to want them dead, but I could imagine him being sufficiently angry with Quirrel to consciously put him outside of his monkeysphere - aka, not care/be indifferent to his death.
  • Partial Transfiguration
  • The secret to creating new potions.
    • The secret to creating new spells could probably be taught to him in the remaining time, too.
  • Hermione's corpse (probably.)
  • The Philosopher's Stone, which appears to be some sort of conceptual anti-Death tool already. (Gold being the least reactive metal and thus the longest-lived in its original state, though that begs the question "why not xenon." Maybe because xenon is a gas and thus will mix/lose its form?)
  • A Time Turner. Harry can only go back one or two more hours today, but he can send information back another six as long as he figures out the plan now.
  • Minions. Lesath Lestrange in particular.
  • A large, probably ordinary rock.

Am I missing any resources?

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 16 February 2015 09:16:30AM 1 point [-]

but in all seriousness: I expect Harry to solve Death before the end of the fic - it's too central to both Harry's current motive and thus the current plot arc, and Eliezer's motives in writing this fic, to avoid, even putting aside the conspicuous Peverell prophecy.

EY also likes to point out the virtues of hard work. It might seem... too easy, too trivial for an 11 year old to solve death in less than a year.

Comment author: linkhyrule5 16 February 2015 12:48:04PM 0 points [-]

Maybe, but 11 year old has had skillsofts from a much older person uploaded into him and has access to outright magc.

Comment author: DanArmak 16 February 2015 03:12:19PM 0 points [-]

That older person has access to enormously more powerful magic, fears death more than anything in the world, and hasn't been able to solve Death for decades now. Even though he's willing to use methods that harm others, which Harry wouldn't.

However, there's the Philosopher's Stone, which is supposed to grant immortality, or at least restore health. (The immortality part is uncertain: in canon it let Flamel survive for six centuries, but in HPMOR Quirrel claims that the stone's current holder is not the one who made it.) Presumably it has some finite store of power, otherwise even Dumbledore would want to use it to heal the injuries of young people. So the question is how to duplicate it. We haven't been told why exactly Flamel can't produce more of it; it might be something Harry can resolve, but it could also be a zero-sum requirement to sacrifice lives to produce it.

I feel that the only way Harry could defeat Death would be using the Stone. Coming up with an unrelated solution at this point would not be plausible.

Comment author: Velorien 16 February 2015 03:27:51PM 4 points [-]

The immortality part is uncertain: in canon it let Flamel survive for six centuries, but in HPMOR Quirrel claims that the stone's current holder is not the one who made it.)

In canon, the elixir of youth is something you have to make and drink over and over; if the Stone were stolen, and you were unable to make a replacement in time, you would die of old age. It's possible that this is what happened, with Flamel as the thief. This would also explain why he can't make more Stones.

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