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Vaniver comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapter 104 - Less Wrong Discussion

8 Post author: b_sen 16 February 2015 01:24AM

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Comment author: linkhyrule5 16 February 2015 08:00:54AM *  8 points [-]

Hm.

So, as we approach the end of the fic, there's one question left that looks really hard.

Let's try to solve it!

...but in all seriousness: I expect Harry to solve Death before the end of the fic - it's too central to both Harry's current motive and thus the current plot arc, and Eliezer's motives in writing this fic, to avoid, even putting aside the conspicuous Peverell prophecy.

There is not enough time left for Harry to do this by learning some secret art or by putting his own spin on an existing spell. Therefore, this problem should be soluble with what Harry has on hand.

For now, I will treat Quirrelmort and Dumbledore (come on, you don't honestly think he's going to be absent for the big climactic duel of words and ideals, do you?) as resources - never mind how Harry convinces them for now.

  • Between Dumbledore and Quirrel, essentially any existing spell. This is known to be insufficient for the task.
  • Dumbledore has the Elder Wand. Harry has the Invisibility Cloak. Quirrel is highly implied to have the Stone of Resurrection. All three Hallows are gathered, and Harry seems to have activated something in that prophecy stone.
  • The Patronus 2.0.
  • The Killing Curse 2.0. Harry is never going to hate someone enough to want them dead, but I could imagine him being sufficiently angry with Quirrel to consciously put him outside of his monkeysphere - aka, not care/be indifferent to his death.
  • Partial Transfiguration
  • The secret to creating new potions.
    • The secret to creating new spells could probably be taught to him in the remaining time, too.
  • Hermione's corpse (probably.)
  • The Philosopher's Stone, which appears to be some sort of conceptual anti-Death tool already. (Gold being the least reactive metal and thus the longest-lived in its original state, though that begs the question "why not xenon." Maybe because xenon is a gas and thus will mix/lose its form?)
  • A Time Turner. Harry can only go back one or two more hours today, but he can send information back another six as long as he figures out the plan now.
  • Minions. Lesath Lestrange in particular.
  • A large, probably ordinary rock.

Am I missing any resources?

Comment author: Vaniver 16 February 2015 03:05:27PM 6 points [-]

The Killing Curse 2.0. Harry is never going to hate someone enough to want them dead,

ಠ_ಠ Why are you taking Harry's far mode pronouncements as binding on his near mode actions? Not only is that dubious for humans in general, we know Harry has a mysterious dark side that can take control and does want people dead if they're annoying.

I could imagine him being sufficiently angry with Quirrel to consciously put him outside of his monkeysphere

I don't see how that's different from "hating" Quirrel; if you Other someone by being angry at them, you don't stop being angry at them once they're Othered.

he can send information back another six as long as he figures out the plan now.

How? Remember the bits about being careful to not leak info to allow people to go back in time? (Though 'info' clearly is defined as being 'plot-relevant info' rather than 'physics-relevant info,' so that independent time travel is possible at all.)

Comment author: knb 16 February 2015 07:04:29PM 2 points [-]

I believe it's the Killing Curse 2 that Harry believes he can't use (he can't be indifferent to killing someone.)

Comment author: Vaniver 16 February 2015 07:22:07PM 0 points [-]

I believe it's the Killing Curse 2 that Harry believes he can't use (he can't be indifferent to killing someone.)

Right. I read linkhyrule5 as saying that 1) Harry wouldn't hate someone enough to use Killing Curse 1 (which I disbelieve) and that 2) Harry could use Killing Curse 2 by being angry enough at Quirrel to be indifferent whether he lives or dies (which I disbelieve).

Comment author: polymathwannabe 17 February 2015 12:04:21AM -1 points [-]

When Harry is negotiating his truce with Lucius Malfoy, Harry painstakingly tells himself why it would be OK for him to kill Lucius. Maybe Harry can also talk himself into killing Quirrell.

Comment author: Vaniver 17 February 2015 12:32:00AM 2 points [-]

Maybe Harry can also talk himself into killing Quirrell.

I think Harry will have a pretty easy time killing Quirrell, if he gets the sense that Quirrell's continued survival would be a net negative.