kilobug comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapters 105-107 - Less Wrong Discussion
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Comments (353)
Seems quite weak promise to me. He just has to take hostages or do other actions/threats against something Harry values until Harry tries to stop him, and then he'll be free to do whatever he wants to Harry. He can even already have that plan in mind, and still say that sentence in Parseltongue.
But we are back to the problem of "no safe wish", promises made by Quirrell, even in Parseltongue, cannot be trusted. Same for
If he does revive her to true life and health, and after 5 minutes kill her again, he would fulfill the promise.
Parseltogue doesn't seem to allow for careful evasive wording but actually makes people speak openly about their intentions.
It's also worth noting that parseltogue doesn't produce binding promises. To do binding promising the unbreakable vow is required.
It's not as fuzzy/rich as human languages, so it's harder to do it, but it's always possible to only say half of the truth which opens all doors to careful manipulation
Indeed, it doesn't prevent people from reconsidering/changing their mind later on. The speaker has to believe what he says is the truth when he says it, but he can be honestly wrong, and he can change his mind later on.
It seems from the way Harry worded his own part of the deal that if the speak knows he's likely to reconsider, he cannot openly promise it, but it's just a matter of "Harry now knows that future Harry may reconsider, so Harry now can't say future Harry will do it", only about the knowledge of Harry now, and is non binding on the future.
Richness isn't the only limiting factor. When Harry did his 2+2=3 experiment he automatically said 4. That seems the language automatically makes things that reveal the intention to come out.
It's a good thing that he tried to say 3 and not 5. Otherwise we'd be debating whether snake-language might not be rich enough to include 5. (Compare rabbit language in Watership Down, which has a single word for all numbers above 4, variously translated in the text as 5 or 1000.)
This is a common feature of primitive languages (including Proto-Uralic, which Finnish and Hungarian are descended from, as well as possibly Proto-Indo-European according to this paper -- though it's best known from Australian languages), but there's no way Salazar Slytherin would have neglected to put a full system of numerals into a language designed to be used for trustworthily planning and executing plots.
What's a full system of numerals? Even in Proto-Uralic, you could say ‘four and one’, and a human mind would understand that (whereas rabbits start getting confused, if I remember my appendix correctly). Conversely, in English, we don't have a word for 21; we just say ‘twenty and one’ (abbreviating the ‘and’ to a hyphen, while in French and German the ‘and’ remains).
A semi-relevant paper: http://www.academia.edu/1917177/On_numeral_complexity_in_hunter-gatherer_languages
A footnote:
Also: https://numberwarrior.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/is-one-two-many-a-myth/ -- the urapon/ukasar thing suggests that you might be right, but that looks like the same structure as in Bardi.
I note in passing that the patterns in that first paper (that is, limits on numeral systems lining up areally, with Australian and Khoisan languages not having many numerals, other African languages varying but tending toward low limits, and Asian languages having high limits) look like they line up well with the IQ data I've seen, although South America is mildly surprising.
Are you sure? My understanding (from reading some anthropology paper I chanced across is that people in cultures without full number systems do get more confused by large numbers.
Right, that's the claim about the Piraha at least: their language has no numerals, only two terms for 'smaller amount' and 'larger amount' and then circumlocutions for things like 'many':
I haven't seen other studies, but I'd assume that people in cultures without full number systems would get confused by large numbers, just since they don't have practice with them.
Now, the claim about the Piraha is that they wanted to learn to count -- after Everett noticed they couldn't count, they got worried that they were getting ripped off in trade -- but couldn't. I don't know how much to trust that, though.
I still don't know what a full number system is, although you and nydrwracu refer to it again. Is the claim that English has one but Proto-Uralic didn't? If so, how is the distinction drawn?
The case of the Pirahã is different. They have less of a number system than the rabbits of Watership Down, and less of a number system than has already been established for Parseltongue. It makes sense that they couldn't learn to count [although the children could, if I remember correctly what I've read about them]. But I find it much harder to believe that a culture that can count to 4 can't learn to count beyond that.
As for confusion, I'll buy that you get confused much earlier if you grew up counting to smaller numbers. Most English speakers have no good idea how big a million is, even if they're comfortable with the word. Nobody has a good idea how big 3^^^3 is.
Well, earlier he did promise:
But not necessarily the same physical form - thus the Alicorn Princess.
Maybe she needs to come back as a unicorn, so she can have steady access to unicorn blood?
Except that according to Quirrell, the unicorn has to die in the drinking for unicorn blood to have its healing effect.
Hence the wings - she's a phoenixcorn. /lie
And when House Potter is elevated to royalty, then she (as a member of that house) becomes a Princess … now everything is explained!
Memory charm him to believe that some random young female person is his friend, and restore that person.
Alternately, just find a young female friend who is already alive. Doing your best to resurrect a living person == no action.