Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapters 105-107

b_sen

Two new short chapters! Since the next one is coming tomorrow and we know it'll be short, let's use one thread for both.

This is a new thread to discuss Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality and anything related to it. This thread is intended for discussing chapter 105 (and chapter 106, once it comes out tomorrow). EDIT: based on Alsadius' comment about thread creation for MOR chapters, let's also use this thread for chapter 107 (and future chapters until this nears 500 comments) unless someone objects to doing so. Given that this is the final arc we're talking about, thread titles should be updated to indicate chapters covered.

There is a site dedicated to the story at hpmor.com, which is now the place to go to find the authors notes and all sorts of other goodies. AdeleneDawner has kept an archive of Author’s Notes. (This goes up to the notes for chapter 76, and is now not updating. The authors notes from chapter 77 onwards are on hpmor.com.)

Spoiler Warning: this thread is full of spoilers. With few exceptions, spoilers for MOR and canon are fair game to post, without warning or rot13. More specifically:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it’s fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that “Eliezer said X is true” unless you use rot13.

Two new short chapters! Since the next one is coming tomorrow and we know it'll be short, let's use one thread for both.

Spoiler Warning: this thread is full of spoilers. With few exceptions, spoilers for MOR and canon are fair game to post, without warning or rot13. More specifically:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it’s fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that “Eliezer said X is true” unless you use rot13.

I think we've got Dumbledore to thank for this one, honestly.

CanonVoldemort went to every effort to kill Dumbledore, but it seems clear that RationalistVoldemort could have murdered him at leisure. He keeps Dumbledore around as a sort of Batman to his Joker. It puts the story where he taught him not to respond to hostage taking in perspective.

Despite his disdain, Voldemort has to recognize that Dumbledore's madness is occasionally an advantage. Since he elects not to kill Dumbledore, he has to compensate for it. I'd argue that he actually enjoys it on some level.

Thus, while all logic has Voldemort dead long ago (for all the reasons Harry/Quirrel discuss) Dumbledore leaps to the conclusion that Voldemort is alive and behind everything. That is, he leaps to the correct conclusion, for no reason.

Similarly, given a belief in the existence of Voldemort somewhere in the world, any other wizard would be searching diligently and inventively. Dumbledore, by contrast, sets up a trap that couldn't be more obvious if it was a box propped up by a stick. Quirrel openly mocks it earlier in the tale.

Its a trap that should never work, and yet, here we are, with Lord Volodemort entering the trap.

Harry is, to Voldemort's mind, mostly just a subset of his own abilities. Not as smart, shackled by stupid teachings, not as magically powerful. If the creator of the defenses was some kind of RivalVoldemort there would be no need whatsoever for him to bring the potentially traitorous Harry, but the defenses were designed by Dumbledore, and will be just as stupidsmart as you'd expect.

The traps set up by faculty are more or less just foreplay. They are set up by the Snapes of the world, just weaker and dumber versions of Voldemort. But Dumbledore's might be a whole other kettle of fish.

Perhaps, in order to reach the mirror you must pass a Dementor? Its a stretch to imagine him having a dementor in the school, but maybe its trapped somehow so it can't kill students?

Maybe you have to persuade a phoenix to bring the mirror? Or casting the spell to get to it requires your life energy so that if you don't have a phoenix giving you strength you'll die in the process.

Perhaps its as simple as the magical equivalent of a rock that only Dumbledore is strong enough to life. Or it is just keyed to only open for Harry Potter, because Dumbledore irrationally believes that Harry will be the next Great Hero.

The edges of Voldemort's abilities, those minor tricks and habits that Harry has that Voldemort hasn't deigned to acquire yet, might be the key to Dumbledore's final barrier. Its worth bringing Harry along for that.

Beyond that, I think there is a bit of Steerpike syndrome here. Voldemort is probably, on some level, lonely, and Harry/Tom is useful as a sop to this.

Univat ernq 108, V srry fhcre cebhq bs guvf thrff.

9Astazha11y

I don't think Dumbledore does shit for no reason. I think he knows more than he can let on, so he acts on what he knows but doesn't provide the real justification because it would compromise his sources and methods. He probably has extensive access to prophecies, which are the only way we know about that information can travel back more than 6 hours. Dumbledore has done some very long range things, like "your father's rock", and the hint to Lily about thestral blood. This is a guy who has access to many more relevant prophecies than we have seen. He at least has bugged Trelawney's bedside, and he may have sorted out better access than that. Plus, by being someone who is very powerful and extensively engages with, interprets, and acts upon prophecy, he becomes a relevant actor that prophecies tend to come to. Dumbledore is an excellent tool for prophecy, and vice versa.

0TobyBartels11y

Reference for Steerpike syndrome please?