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cousin_it comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapter 108 - Less Wrong Discussion

5 Post author: b_sen 20 February 2015 09:53PM

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Comment author: cousin_it 21 February 2015 11:38:41AM *  6 points [-]

What the hell? Making horcruxes for your friends doesn't actually test the invention. You also need to kill your friends and hope that the invention works. That doesn't sound so nice, does it? And we don't have a good explanation why Riddle missed this idea anymore.

Comment author: DefectiveAlgorithm 21 February 2015 12:32:30PM 18 points [-]

I don't think Harry meant to imply that actually running this test would be nice, but rather that one cannot even think of running this test without first thinking of the possibility of making a horcrux for someone else (something which is more-or-less nice-ish in itself, the amorality inherent in creating a horcrux at all notwithstanding).

Comment author: adamzerner 07 April 2015 09:28:00PM *  0 points [-]

I wonder why EY chose to use this example. It seems that a big reason he writes the book is to promote rationality and goodness. This seems like a huge opportunity to make the point that "the otherwise smart dark wizard is missing out by not being good". But the point is much less clear because of the fact that actually running the test wouldn't really be that nice.

Comment author: gjm 21 February 2015 04:44:03PM 7 points [-]

Make them for lots of friends, friends who like you lead dangerous lives and who unlike you are not vastly more powerful than every other wizard around. Some of them will likely die soon enough.

Comment author: DanArmak 21 February 2015 06:25:28PM *  6 points [-]

You don't have to test it on your friends; you can test it on your enemies, or on bystanders you don't care about, or in Voldemort's case, on minions you don't care about.

Get a random wizard off the street (if you're Voldemort) or a prisoner you're going to kill anyway (if you're ethical). Control them by Imperius, Legilimizing, or plain threats. Have them make a Horcrux. Kill them and activate the horcrux on a second person you're willing to kill. Test the result. When done, kill the second person and destroy the Horcrux.

Comment author: cousin_it 21 February 2015 06:27:38PM 5 points [-]

Yeah, that's why I said "we don't have a good explanation why Riddle missed this idea anymore".

Comment author: DanArmak 21 February 2015 06:41:52PM 16 points [-]

Harry thinks it's because making a Horcrux for someone else pattern-matches "teaching your most powerful spells to others", which pattern-matches "helping others altruistically", and Voldemort has an ugh field around that concept, or at least a blind spot. For what it's worth, Voldemort agreed with this analysis.

Comment author: ChristianKl 21 February 2015 12:32:10PM 6 points [-]

You just need a friend who would otherwise die soon, so that the risk of permanent death is worth eternal life.