Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, February 2015, chapter 109

Gondolinian

This is a new thread to discuss Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality and anything related to it. This thread is intended for discussing chapter 109.

There is a site dedicated to the story at hpmor.com, which is now the place to go to find the authors notes and all sorts of other goodies. AdeleneDawner has kept an archive of Author’s Notes. (This goes up to the notes for chapter 76, and is now not updating. The authors notes from chapter 77 onwards are on hpmor.com.)

Spoiler Warning: this thread is full of spoilers. With few exceptions, spoilers for MOR and canon are fair game to post, without warning or rot13. More specifically:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it’s fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that “Eliezer said X is true” unless you use rot13.

This is a new thread to discuss Eliezer Yudkowsky’s Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality and anything related to it. This thread is intended for discussing chapter 109.

Spoiler Warning: this thread is full of spoilers. With few exceptions, spoilers for MOR and canon are fair game to post, without warning or rot13. More specifically:

You do not need to rot13 anything about HP:MoR or the original Harry Potter series unless you are posting insider information from Eliezer Yudkowsky which is not supposed to be publicly available (which includes public statements by Eliezer that have been retracted).

If there is evidence for X in MOR and/or canon then it’s fine to post about X without rot13, even if you also have heard privately from Eliezer that X is true. But you should not post that “Eliezer said X is true” unless you use rot13.

I'm not quite sure how to interpret the end of the chapter. Option 1 is that real!Dumbledore is within the mirror, option 2 is that Riddle!Dumbledore is within the mirror (and about to interact with Tom in the way Tom always wanted him to), option 3 is that real!Dumbledore is outside the mirror and Harry can see him reflected in it.

And now I feel stupid for not thinking of option 3. While it would be very amusing to have everyone fooled into forgetting that mirrors also reflect things (duh), there are convincing arguments for option 1, the main one being timing.

1Jost11y

Option 2 is implausible, since each person only sees their own CEV in the mirror – as evidenced by Harry not seeing the images of Aberforth and Ariana that confunded!Quirrell (Dumblemort? Quirroldemordore?) saw. (Insofar, the mirror behaves just like in canon.) Or would you assume that Harry (Harriddle?) and Quirrellmort count as one person for the purposes of the mirror? (One person that, in turn, is different from confunded!Quirrellmort?)

16solipsist11y

I bet on option 1. I think Quirrell has been expecting Dumbledore to be hiding in the mirror. He said: [...] Quirrell could be lying, but Dumbledore being hidden near the stone seems reasonable too. Also Quirrell said (in parseltongue): [...] Appears before us. To me the verb appear evokes images, like in a mirror, more than running into people.