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ChristianKl comments on If you can see the box, you can open the box - Less Wrong Discussion

49 Post author: ThePrussian 26 February 2015 10:36AM

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Comment author: ChristianKl 26 February 2015 01:48:20PM 0 points [-]

I never said bin Laden shows "moral deprivation"

Nor have I claimed that you said so. I claimed that you advocate that freedom of the west (or moral deprivation from Bin Ladin's perspective) is sufficient for Bin Ladin waging war against the US. That's what I understand "They attacked us because they hate our freedom" to mean.

The jizya isn't just a tax, it is an integral part of the system of subordination and degradation of the dhimmi. The point is to make the dhimmi "feel subdued" -

From your perspective the point is to make the dhimmi feel subdued, but I don't think you have shown that's the point in that particular passage.

Re:context, I can only suggest that you look at the Harris quote in context.

The point I was making is that you quote without providing context. It's quite easy to quote without naming sources in a way that allows you to make them appear worse than they are.

If we are playing that game, than Harris was advocating that it's okay for the US to kill Aghans outside of what's tradtionally allowed by interantional law while other people do think that international law is important.

Comment author: roystgnr 26 February 2015 03:33:14PM 7 points [-]

From your perspective the point is to make the dhimmi feel subdued

A half dozen different Koran translations list "subdued", "humbled", "brought low", "in a state of subjection", "belittled". I don't think that ThePrussian is inventing his own personal perspective here.

Comment author: ThePrussian 26 February 2015 01:54:06PM 3 points [-]

Ah, sorry, it was a little unclear and we were talking past each other there.

"From your perspective the point is to make the dhimmi feel subdued, but I don't think you have shown that's the point in that particular passage."

I could cite source after source of Islamic jihad scholars who explain that this is the purpose of the jizya and the surrounding institutions of degradation and subordination that make up dhimmitude - but this comment is, sadly, not large enough to hold it. So if I might suggest you take a look into the doctrines and history of dhimmitude and see how it was used.

Good discussion, but sadly I need to be travelling now, and hope to continue at a later date.

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