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IlyaShpitser comments on If you can see the box, you can open the box - Less Wrong Discussion

49 Post author: ThePrussian 26 February 2015 10:36AM

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Comment author: ThePrussian 27 February 2015 05:03:31PM 4 points [-]

This is all said long before Hitler was even a lunatic fringe candidate, though I repeat myself. Was Hitler always obsessed with race and Jew-hatred? Yep. Did his actions seem in accord with this? Amazingly so.

Take your comment on the USSR - why did Hitler insist on breaking the pact and invading Russian in winter? The answer is that he regarded Communism as "Judeo-Bolshevism", a Jewish plot against the Aryan race. Again, why did Nazism never take in the East when people began by welcoming the Wehrmacht's advance? Because in Nazi racial theory, Slavs were untermenschen. The whole course of the war is completely explicable by thinking that the Nazis actually believed what they said.

This is what I mean about some people not being able to understand that others have a radically different view of the world. You need to explain away just about everything about the Third Reich to imagine that its animating principle was something other than fanatical racism. You have to explain nothing if you make the contrary assumption.

What do you think animated Hitler? For that matter, what do you think animates jihadis?

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 27 February 2015 05:33:19PM *  1 point [-]

Hitler invaded on June 22, was planning to be done before the frost set in, and was (I think correctly) worried about Stalin's double cross at some point down the line.


A German invasion backed by a less insane ideology would have won as well, I think.

Comment author: ThePrussian 27 February 2015 05:51:08PM -1 points [-]

That's a common misunderstanding. Barbarossa begins in June, but the push into Russia proper does not happen until the winter. Which is what was predictable if you start such an invasion in June.

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 27 February 2015 05:58:25PM *  1 point [-]

???

Are you talking about the invasion plans? The original estimate was was for the Red Army to fold in a few weeks. Do you have any references for your claim that the Germans planned for a "Russia proper" push to happen in winter of 1941-42?

Comment author: ThePrussian 27 February 2015 06:11:26PM -1 points [-]

If you start an eastward invasion in June, you end up in Russia in Winter. Which is what happened. Which is why Hitler's generals were against it. It's not difficult to work out - Napoleon did the same thing.

Comment author: Lumifer 27 February 2015 06:26:20PM 4 points [-]

First, in the context I don't think the difference between Ukraine, Belorussia, etc. and Russia proper is in any way meaningful.

Second, the Russian town of Smolensk fell by late July. By August Novgorod was taken and the Germans got close to Leningrad. The battle for Moscow started in early October.

As opposed to Napoleon, the Germans planned a blitzkrieg -- the "blitz" part is there for a reason.

You are not making any sense.

Comment author: IlyaShpitser 27 February 2015 07:02:43PM 0 points [-]

Ok, no longer confused about what's happening here. Exiting conversation.