= 27d567bc2d48d9f40e9ccc20ea370b15)
TylerJay comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread, March 2015, chapter 116 - Less Wrong Discussion
You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.
= 783df68a0f980790206b9ea87794c5b6)
Loading…= b715d02e85f7b3b4ae65ca3d3e450868)
Subscribe to RSS Feed
Powered by Reddit
= f037147d6e6c911a85753b9abdedda8d)
Comments (302)
I've been wondering about this for a while, but never had a chance to do the required detective work. Were Harry and the Defense Professor in the castle at the time? If so, when Dumbles said "Find Tom Riddle..." he most definitely learned that HP and QQ were both Tom Riddles.
So... were they in the castle at the time? Or was QQ at St. Mungo's or the DMLE?
At the time when Dumbledore uses the map, Harry is in Hogwarts, investigating, while QQ is at the DMLE, being investigated.
Thought so. Seems like a pretty close call to me. Thanks.
Although, really, it seems a bit contrived. If QQ was identified to the wards as the defense professor, wouldn't that be what the Hogwarts security system sees?
I'd read it as "Defense Professor" being a role with a package of permissions being assigned to a user. The map shows usernames, so to speak, not what roles or permissions they've been assigned in some other portion of the security system.
I don't think it goes : username (Tom Riddle) => permissions (Defense Professor) or Harry (recognized as Tom Riddle too) would have the Defense Professor permissions.
I mostly assumed that the map and the wards are two different systems, maybe not crafted by the same person (not the same founder if they were made by the 4 founders, or by different headmasters if they were added afterwards).
In canon, the map was made by Harry's dad and his three friends.
HPMOR seems to have changed this.
That is not literally a contradiction.
Not literally. It's possinle that the Marauders stole some other thing, and repurposed it into the Map.
But honestly, James Potter, Remus Lupin, Sirius Black and Peter Pettigrew were none of them great wizards, especially in their teens, so the less their involvement in the Map's creation, the more plausible I find the theory.
Yeah, I'm thinking separate systems but there's a lot we don't know about how this works and why the discrepancies are there.
Actually, we aren't sure that Harry doesn't have Defense Professor permissions, are we?
Indeed. I don't think Harry's ever tried to do something that only a professor can do, or that would have markedly different results if a professor tried to do it.
Edit: "markedly visible" was meant to be "markedly different". I need more sleep.
Like, say, brainwash or torture a student.
Hum, good question.
I assumed that with all his experimenting he did in a year, he must have triggered a ward at a point. He doesn't all the wards, and since we expect them to be quite extensive, it's very unlikely he never triggered one.
So what are our hypothesis ?
Harry is not recognized as Defense Professor by the wards.
Harry is recognized as DP by the wards, never triggered a ward, but that didn't seem suspicious to Dumbledore because there are fewer wards I imagined there to be, so even with lots of experimenting, it's quite normal he didn't trigger one.
Harry is recognized as DP by the wards, never triggered a ward, and Dumbledore failed to realize it, due to a variation of the "availability bias", we don't tend to notice events that fail to occur (while they should) as much as events that occur (while they shouldn't).
Harry is recognized as DP by the wards, and Dumbledore did suspect it. Then, Dumbledore knowing that Harry is likely a Tom Riddle, must have suspected Quirrel to be a Tom Riddle. He knew much more that he claimed, and he lied when he said to Quirrelmort that he didn't suspect anything.
I would put most probability on 1, but none of 2, 3, 4 can be excluded at this point, yes.
I do not expect this. Time-tuners are fine. Invisibility cloaks are fine. Draco's torture hex was fine. The only thing I can think of that Harry did that might have triggered a ward without permissions was bring in the transfigured unicorn. And that isn't conclusive at all. It was transfigured, and as far as I know the Defense Professor can't just bring magical creatures in to Hogwarts either.
I don't think it's been tested.
We have some evidence Harry has defense professor permissions and didn't trip any wards because of that. He practiced memory charms. In Hogwarts. If the castle thought of him as a student, that would have set alarms ringing, with professor permissions, no alarms. Not strong evidence, because Harry was Dumbledores pet disaster, and it is entirely possible he'd hear an alarm like that, check up on what Harry was doing, and ignore it as long as he wasn't casting it on students. But it's an implication.
Would you quote me where Harry used obliviate in Hogwarts on someone that would have tripped wards? I don't recall that.