You're looking at Less Wrong's discussion board. This includes all posts, including those that haven't been promoted to the front page yet. For more information, see About Less Wrong.

Lumifer comments on Open Thread, Apr. 27 - May 3, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: Gondolinian 27 April 2015 12:18AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (352)

You are viewing a single comment's thread. Show more comments above.

Comment author: Lumifer 29 April 2015 02:44:07PM 5 points [-]

Expecting one person to be able to do psychology and neuroscience and stats and computer programming seems like an unreasonable demand

Most papers have multiple authors. If you need to do heavy lifting in stats, bring a statistician on board.

whether the development of some sort of automated stats program would help

I don't think so. First, I can't imagine it being flexible enough (and if it's too flexible its reason for existence is lost) and second it will just be gamed. People like Gelman think that the reliance on t-tests is a terrible idea, anyway, and I tend to agree with him.

My preference is for a radical suggestion: make papers openly provide their data and their calculations (e.g. as a download). After all, this is supposed to be science, right?

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 29 April 2015 05:01:01PM 1 point [-]

Most papers have multiple authors. If you need to do heavy lifting in stats, bring a statistician on board.

I don't think this just applies to heavy lifting - basic stats are pretty confusing given that most seem to rely on the assumption of a normal distribution, which is a mathematical abstraction that rarely occurs in real life. And in reality, people don't bring specialists on board, at least not that I have seen.

My preference is for a radical suggestion: make papers openly provide their data and their calculations (e.g. as a download). After all, this is supposed to be science, right?

I understand why this was not done back when journals were printed on paper, but it really should be done now.

Comment author: Lumifer 29 April 2015 05:37:37PM 1 point [-]

basic stats are pretty confusing given that most seem to rely on the assumption of a normal distribution

If a psych researcher finds "basic stats" confusing, he is not qualified to write a paper which looks at statistical interpretations of whatever results he got. He should either acquire some competency or stop pretending he understands what he is writing.

Many estimates do rely on the assumption of a normal distribution in the sense that these estimates have characteristics (e.g. "unbiased" or "most efficient") which are mathematically proven in the normal distribution case. If this assumption breaks down, these characteristics are no longer guaranteed. This does not mean that the estimates are now "bad" or useless -- in many cases they are still the best you could go given the data.

To give a crude example, 100 is guaranteed to be biggest number in the [1 .. 100] set of integers. If your set of integers is "from one to about a hundred, more or less", 100 is no longer guaranteed to be the biggest, but it's still not a bad estimate of the biggest number in that set.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 30 April 2015 09:32:13AM 0 points [-]

If a psych researcher finds "basic stats" confusing, he is not qualified to write a paper which looks at statistical interpretations of whatever results he got. He should either acquire some competency or stop pretending he understands what he is writing.

The problem is that psychology and statistics are different skills, and someone who is talented at one may not be talented at the other.

To give a crude example, 100 is guaranteed to be biggest number in the [1 .. 100] set of integers. If your set of integers is "from one to about a hundred, more or less", 100 is no longer guaranteed to be the biggest, but it's still not a bad estimate of the biggest number in that set.

I take your point, but you can no longer say that 100 is the biggest number with 95% confidence, and this is the problem.

Comment author: Lumifer 30 April 2015 03:04:35PM 1 point [-]

someone who is talented at one may not be talented at the other.

You don't need to be talented, you only need to be competent. If you can't pass even that low bar, maybe you shouldn't publish papers which use statistics.

you can no longer say that 100 is the biggest number with 95% confidence, and this is the problem.

I don't see any problem here.

First, 95% is an arbitrary number, it's pure convention that does not correspond to any joint in the underlying reality.

Second, the t-test does NOT mean what most people think it means. See e.g. this or this.

Third, and most important, your certainty level should be entirely determined by the data. If your data does not support 95% confidence, then it does not. Trying to pretend otherwise is fraud.

Comment author: [deleted] 30 April 2015 06:08:36PM 1 point [-]

This "radical" suggestion is now a funding condition of at least some UK research councils (along with requirements to publish publically funded work in open access forms). A very positive move.... If enforced.