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ChristianKl comments on In praise of gullibility? - Less Wrong Discussion
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It's not ambiguous. It's just that it communicates certain values that are foreign to DeVliegendeHollander.
And, to be quite clear about it, DVH at no point suggested that he doesn't understand what the term means (despite VoR's respose which seems to presuppose that he did). He understands what it means, he just thinks it implies a strange and unpleasant attitude.
And yet here he claims that he's "not trying to raise a moral finger here".
So is his problem that this "strange and unpleasant attitude", represents a flaw in the argument that would render its conclusions false.
Calling something unpleasant is perfectly consistent with "not trying to raise a moral finger". (For the avoidance of doubt, the word "unpleasant" here is mine, not DVH's, but I don't think I've misrepresented his meaning.) I am not entirely convinced that he really isn't trying to raise a moral finger, at least a little bit.
I don't think I see how the attitude DVH thinks he perceives via the idea of "sexual access to women" could represent a flaw in any argument, nor is it quite clear to me what argument you have in mind or which conclusions would be being invalidated. Could you be a bit more explicit?
I have no idea either but if you look up thread, you'll see that DVH seems to think it does.
Oh, OK, I'd misunderstood what you were saying. But I don't think I agree; I don't see that DVH is claiming that any argument is invalidated, exactly. I'm not sure to what extent there are even actual arguments under discussion. Isn't he rather saying: look, there's all this stuff that's been written, but its basic premises are so far removed from mine that there's no engaging with it?
I expect that, e.g., the book he mentions has some arguments in it, and I expect he does disagree with some of the conclusions because of disagreeing with this premise, by it looks to me as if that's a side-effect rather than the main issue.
Imagine reading a lot of material by, let's say, ancient Egyptians, that just take for granted throughout that your primary goal is to please the Egyptian gods. You might disagree with some conclusions because of this. You might agree with some conclusions despite it (e.g., if the goods are held to want a stable and efficiently run state, and you want that too). But disagreement with the conclusions of some arguments wouldn't be your main difficulty, so much as finding that practically every sentence is somehow pointing in a weird direction. I think that's how DVH feels about the stuff he's referring to.
Except he didn't object to a premise, he objected to the term "sexual access to women".
In which case I could point to a specific false premise, namely the existence of the Egyptian gods. Neither you not DVH have pointed to any false premises. You've objected to terms used, but have not claimed that the terms don't point to anything in reality.
Here's the most relevant bit of what he actually wrote:
"Not about strictly defined concepts". "Your own light which can be utterly different from the light of other people". "For example". "What kind of a life could this come from". The point isn't that there's something uniquely terrible about this particular term, it's that if someone finds it natural to write in such terms then they're looking at the world in a way DVH finds foreign and unpleasant and confusing.
Falsity isn't (AIUI) the point. Neither is whether the term in question points to anything in reality. The point is that the whole approach -- values, underlying assumptions, etc. -- is far enough removed from DVH's that he sees no useful way of engaging with it. "When discussing human behavior you cannot really separate facts from values, and thus you need a certain kind of agreement in values."
Anyway, I'm getting rather bored of all the gratuitous downvotes so I think I'll stop now. By the way, you've missed a couple of my comments in this discussion. But I expect you'll get around to them soon, and in any case I see you've made up for it by downvoting a bunch of my old comments again.