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ThisSpaceAvailable comments on Open Thread, Jun. 1 - Jun. 7, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

3 Post author: Gondolinian 01 June 2015 12:45AM

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Comment author: chaosmage 01 June 2015 07:00:09PM *  7 points [-]

The Elon Musk biography that just came out is quite entertaining, but I didn't any significant actionable knowledge in it.

There's an interesting turn at the end. The author thought at the beginning of the project that Musk was particularly terrible with people. At the end, he says he thinks he gets it: Musk has basically just calculated the work of his companies to be more important that the feelings of its employees, and to go against that calculation would be illogical, which for Musk makes it kind of physically painful. So he'd rather put someone down in 5 seconds than waste another minute that he has a better use for on politeness or common decency. And it isn't that he has no empathy, he just has more empathy for mankind as a whole than for the guy standing in front of him, and he's drawing logical conclusions from that difference.

Now first of all I admire that. But this reminds me that even if I could be that consequentialist, most people would still find it hard to recognize me as one, and comparatively easy to just put me in the asshole category.

Comment author: ThisSpaceAvailable 02 June 2015 03:49:08AM 0 points [-]

Consequentialist thinking has a general tendency to get one labeled an asshole.

e.g.

"Hey man, can you spare a dollar?" "If I did have a dollar to spare, I strongly doubt that giving it to you would be the most effective use of it." "Asshole."

Although I think that it's dangerous to think that you can accurately estimate the cost/benefit of tact; I think most people underestimate how much effect it has.

Comment author: [deleted] 02 June 2015 02:46:02PM 0 points [-]

Except if the priority of consequences is ranked as 1. prevent x-risk 2. be popular and you act accordingly :)

Comment author: chaosmage 02 June 2015 11:08:07AM *  0 points [-]

I agree and you shouldn't be downvoted.

The flip side is that if you're not consequentialist, consequentialists will label you a fool.

When I'm labeling myself, "fool" feels less punishing than "asshole", but I think when it's coming from others I'd rather look like an asshole than like a fool. I do wonder how much that is an influence on my consequentialist leanings.