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VoiceOfRa comments on Are consequentialism and deontology not even wrong? - Less Wrong Discussion

15 Post author: Kaj_Sotala 02 June 2015 07:49AM

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Comment author: VoiceOfRa 04 June 2015 04:35:30AM 2 points [-]

How about asking what you should do? By refusing to ask that question you haven't explained morality, you've merely stuffed it under the rug. Since the should question actually is important (and pressing) you'll find yourself having to sneak in connotations to answer it.

For example, you wrote:

There are questions about how certain outcomes make you feel. There are questions about how people actually act. There are questions about what actions would lead to the world being a "better place" (however you define it).

It's possible to substitute add should-like connotations to any of the above questions and end up with a (generally bad) theory of morality.

Comment author: adamzerner 04 June 2015 01:28:48PM *  0 points [-]

What determines whether or not you "should" do something?

My thoughts are that "should requires an axiom". You could say "you shouldn't kill people... if you don't want people to suffer". Or "you should kill people... if you want to go to jail".

In practice, I think people have similar ideas about how outcomes make them feel. Outcome X feels just. Outcome Y feels unjust etc.

When people use the word "should", I think they're implicitly saying "should... in order to achieve the outcomes that me/society feel are just".

Comment author: Creutzer 06 June 2015 07:36:14AM 4 points [-]

This is basically the issue of whether categorical imperatives are a coherent concept. I have the same feeling as you: that they are not, and that I don't even understand what it would mean for them to be. I'm continually baffled by the fact that so many human minds are apparently able to believe that categorical imperatives are a thing. This strikes me as a difficult problem somewhere at the intersection between philosophy, linguistics, and cognitive psychology.

Comment author: torekp 07 June 2015 11:29:11AM 0 points [-]

If you don't even understand what it would mean, this could be a symptom that you are understanding "categorical imperative" differently than they do. I'm going to guess that you are assuming metaethical motivational internalism.

Therein lies your difficulty.

Comment author: Creutzer 07 June 2015 04:14:53PM 1 point [-]

No, it doesn't, because your guess is wrong.

Comment author: VoiceOfRa 05 June 2015 01:53:58AM 0 points [-]

What determines whether or not you "should" do something?

That is precisely the question we are trying to answer.