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Gunnar_Zarncke comments on Perceptual Entropy and Frozen Estimates - Less Wrong Discussion

10 Post author: Davidmanheim 03 June 2015 07:27PM

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Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 03 June 2015 08:30:21PM 0 points [-]

This image sequence is strange. Or maybe I am strange. By now I have played with it quite a bit. And for me it is not easy to see the man in the picture until image 7. The image stops clearly looking like a man about at image 4. And going the reverse the women stops looking clearly like a women about at panel six. I can follow the man along longer but it means to consciously disregard the other aspects. In a meditation-like state I can perceive the whole of the man in image 7 and almost in 8 and in reverse alike. But I have to defocus, not stare and be more dreamy.

Note that I can flip this http://www.youramazingbrain.org.uk/images/supersenses/young_or_old.jpg and this http://www.youramazingbrain.org.uk/images/supersenses/necker_cube.gif (the latter takes about 3 seconds to flip.

Comment author: Davidmanheim 03 June 2015 08:34:45PM 1 point [-]

The trick is to look at them in sequence, one at a time; an animated gif might have been better in some ways.

In either case, the image works better on one line rather than 2, which I have, but can't upload. When I cross-post this to the LA Rationality Blog (once it's working,) the image will be on one line.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 03 June 2015 09:01:07PM *  0 points [-]

Of course I did look at them in sequence - otherwise I have even more difficulty to see either. Jumping back and forth. But the key point is that for me the overlapping/freezing you mention doesn't seem to occur.

Comment author: Silver_Swift 04 June 2015 02:29:24PM 0 points [-]

For me, the pictures in the op stop being a man at around panel 6, going back they stop being a woman at around 4. I can flip your second example by unfocusing and refocusing my eyes, but in your first example I can't for the life of me see anything other than a young woman looking away from the camera (I'm amusing there is an old woman in there somewhere based on the image name).

Could you give a hint as to how to flip it? I'm assuming the ear turns into an eye or something, but I've been trying for about half an hour now and it is annoying the crap out of me.

Comment author: arundelo 04 June 2015 03:11:15PM 3 points [-]
  • The young woman's ear is the old woman's left eye.
  • The young woman's chin is the old woman's nose.
  • The young woman's choker necklace is the old woman's mouth.

The old woman is looking down.

A line drawing version might be easier.

Comment author: Silver_Swift 05 June 2015 12:02:15PM 0 points [-]

Ah yes, that did it (and I think I have seen the line drawing before) but it still takes a serious conscious effort to see the old woman in either of those. Maybe some Freudian thing where my mind prefers looking at young girls over old women :P

Comment author: Davidmanheim 04 June 2015 03:39:17PM 0 points [-]

That's the other example in the book as well - and it has the same hints.