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Jiro comments on Taking Effective Altruism Seriously - Less Wrong Discussion

2 Post author: Salemicus 07 June 2015 06:59AM

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Comment author: Jiro 06 June 2015 09:28:09PM *  4 points [-]

Note that I'm considering the triangular trade as a form of colonization; even if it didn't involve proconsuls, it involved an external actor explicitly fomenting a hierarchical and extractive social order.

If you redefine colonization, you can get the results you wish.

Also, South Korea (and Taiwan) were colonized by Japan and while their main success happened after the end of colonization, if you're going to blame Africa's after-colonization state on colonization, you need to credit these countries' after-colonization state to colonization as well.

Comment author: VoiceOfRa 08 June 2015 02:39:38AM *  2 points [-]

Note that I'm considering the triangular trade as a form of colonization; even if it didn't involve proconsuls, it involved an external actor explicitly fomenting a hierarchical and extractive social order.

If you redefine colonization, you can get the results you wish.

Note that here homunq's stipulation actually makes his claim more false. After all the parts of Africa benefiting from the triangle trade were some of the richest and most well off parts of Africa (not for the Africans being sold obviously) before colonization proper started.

Comment author: 27chaos 06 June 2015 10:10:18PM 1 point [-]

I'm not interested in proving colonialism was always economically inefficient, just in pointing out that OP's aside was troubling. That said, your appeal to consistency isn't correct, it overlooks all nuance. Colonialism has clear and unambiguous ties to the problems that exist in Africa today, but it has no such ties to the successes in South Korea or Taiwan.

Comment author: Jiro 09 June 2015 07:54:50PM 3 points [-]

Colonialism has clear and unambiguous ties to the problems that exist in Africa today, but it has no such ties to the successes in South Korea or Taiwan.

Yes it does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea_under_Japanese_rule#Economy_and_modernization

Comment author: 27chaos 14 June 2015 06:09:17PM *  0 points [-]

Thanks! I wasn't aware of that; I'd always believed the myth cite 71 refers to, that Korea's economy didn't improve significantly until after the Cold War.

In that case, I am willing to give credit to colonialism for Korea's good economy. However, I still stand by my claim that the appeal to consistency is not compelling by itself. It's the details of each situation that matter, as different implementations of colonialism can vary wildly. As can the aftermath of colonialism; if Africa became stable and productive tomorrow, that wouldn't change the fact colonialism had once hurt it; if Korea's economy were to crash later this week, it would still be true that Japanese imposed policies had once improved their productivity.