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DanArmak comments on When does heritable low fitness need to be explained? - Less Wrong Discussion

15 Post author: DanArmak 10 June 2015 12:05AM

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Comment author: Vaniver 10 June 2015 01:46:34PM 3 points [-]

On the other hand, 'obligate' is a strong word to use for things as complicated as human behavior.

Specifically, there are gay men who are repulsed by the prospect of sex with women, and then gay men who are simply not interested (or not as interested) in sex with women.* It seems to me that 'obligate' is meant to refer to the first cluster, and should have a reproductive penalty roughly the same as male asexuality. (Figuring out what percentage of the population falls into that cluster is hard, since you can't really go off self-reports of preference; you want self-reports of anti-preference.)

*Straight men can consider how they would feel about having sex with another man; for some, there's a visceral disgust reaction, and for some there's just a "but... why would I do that?" reaction or a "eh, any port in a storm" reaction.

Knowing several older male homsexuals with biological children via socially-imposed marriage customs, I don't think the effect is as large as many assume under many environments.

In farming societies where monogamy is the norm and marriages are economic arrangements, it seems to me that the reproductive cost of sexual interest in men is minor (or possibly positive, if men in power are willing to trade resources for sexual favors).

But in societies where polygamy is the norm and men compete for women, it seems likely to me that any man who is less interested in winning is less likely to win, and the costs of sexual interest in men might grow significantly.

Comment author: DanArmak 10 June 2015 03:18:12PM *  3 points [-]

In our own society, monogamy is the norm, but marriages are not solely economic arrangements and men do compete for women (and vice versa). If even a small percentage of men does not marry, then it makes sense for men who are not attracted to women to be among them, possibly even reaping some rewards (e.g. two men living together, even if not married, may have a higher than average household income).