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Jiro comments on Tell me what hat to buy - Less Wrong Discussion

4 Post author: DataPacRat 08 August 2015 03:10PM

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Comment author: Jiro 14 August 2015 08:22:35PM *  0 points [-]

There's a reason why "fedora" is used as an insult; wearing one indicates a lack of social skills insofar as the wearer doesn't understand the value of dressing like other people.

At most, there might be exceptions for headgear to keep warm in cold climates, and for regional differences in clothing (such as cowboy hats in rural Texas).

Comment author: Lumifer 14 August 2015 09:03:32PM 5 points [-]

insofar as the wearer doesn't understand the value of dressing like other people.

As with most status/style things, there is a loop: one step up is "dressing like other people". But the next step up is "NOT dressing like other people" :-)

Comment author: Jiro 15 August 2015 03:57:45PM 1 point [-]

But the next step up is "NOT dressing like other people" :-)

That's countersignalling. It only works when you're so accepted that you can get away with bad signals. The original post didn't seem to want the hat for such situations.

Comment author: Lumifer 16 August 2015 12:26:49AM 1 point [-]

That's countersignalling. It only works when you're so accepted that you can get away with bad signals.

Signaling is almost completely context-dependent. What is countersignaling and what are "bad" signals is a function of who is signaling to whom.

You mentioned "the value of dressing like other people" -- in some situations it might be positive, in some situations it might be negative. There is no universal rule.

In general, the formulation of the question is too crude. Most clueful people try to be unique and interesting without being weird. That's not necessarily an easy balance to strike. Talk to a (socially competent, non-teenager) girl :-) They have a much better understanding of these things :-D

Comment author: OrphanWilde 20 August 2015 03:13:14PM 0 points [-]

Experience-altering chemicals suggest -very- strongly to me that hats change your perspective and make you feel more sheltered and protected, as well as less personally involved in the situation at hand (reducing social emotions, such as empathy). I'd guess hats are worn by people who lack social skills as a kind of self-medication to help alleviate their anxiety, rather than because they don't understand normal people don't wear hats.

Comment author: Lumifer 20 August 2015 03:47:19PM 1 point [-]

hats change your perspective and make you feel more sheltered and protected, as well as less personally involved in the situation at hand

Traditionally, that's the role of dark sunglasses.

I am not sure you feelings about hats generalize well.

Comment author: OrphanWilde 20 August 2015 06:11:52PM 0 points [-]

Both share the quality of decreasing the level of light entering your eyes (hats, by reducing your field of vision).

I was a huge fan of hats until I noticed the effect, which is limited to brimmed hats.

(Also consider social conventions about hats and their similarities to conventions about sunglasses. And consider the conventions themselves and how they would tie into these effects.)

Comment author: Lumifer 20 August 2015 06:19:47PM 2 points [-]

Both share the quality of decreasing the level of light entering your eyes

Actually, no, that's not the important thing. Dark sunglasses hide your eyes, in particular their expression and direction. It's harder for other people to gauge you -- that's what provides the "sheltered and protected" feeling.

As to social conventions, I believe the ones about hats go back to showing trust (or submission) by making yourself vulnerable to attack.