pcm comments on Vegetarianism Ideological Turing Test! - Less Wrong Discussion
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Comments (20)
For Omnivores:
The level is healthy for individuals. But that includes way to much meat that has been processed dangerously (bacon, sausage), and not enough minimally processed seafood.
It's not good for the planet. I want to deal with that by uploading my mind. Some large changes of that nature will make current meat production problems irrelevant in a few decades.
Most factory farming (other than for bivalves) produces less healthy meat. I often pay twice as much for pasture-raised chicken/beef. With seafood there's little need to pay extra to get properly raised food.
I'm confused about what rules I should use for primates, octopus, and dolphin. But since I haven't had a convenient opportunity to eat any of those for years, I've procrastinated about deciding.
I would definitely go out of my way for seafood. I don't trust nutrition science enough to tell me how to safely go vegan. Seafood is a good source of B12, high zinc/copper ratios, iodine, and omega-3. I probably wouldn't go much out of my way for chicken, beef, etc.
For Vegetarians:
"never connected to a brain" doesn't seem like quite the right criterion. I expect there's some technology that would satisfy my ethical criteria (Drexlerian nanotech?), in which case I would eat moderate amounts of meat (if it's not too expensive).
Evolution creates enormous amounts of suffering. Natural should in most contexts be interpreted as amoral or immoral.
Maybe we've evolved to be healthier if we eat some animals, but most of the evidence I've seen suggests that bivalves are a much more effective way of getting the relevant nutrition than cruelly farmed vertebrates.
Yes, it's my business whether you are cruel to innocent beings who can't defend themselves.
A culture of cruelty can have widespread effects beyond current nonhuman animals. We're on the verge of creating many new forms of digital life. I want to set good precedents for how they are treated.
I haven't yet actively tried to persuade anyone yet. I feel a little guilty about that, but it seems like a lower priority than x-risks. Also, I've only been vegetarian for seven months. I expect that eventually I'll find a context in which I feel comfortable enough to actively argue for vegetarianism.
Too much of that meat has been processed in ways that create or add new chemicals that we're poorly evolved to handle. E.g. smoking (bacon), and nitrates (sausage).
A less drastic health risk that's harder to avoid comes from mycotoxins on poorly stored grain that factory farmed animals eat.