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RichardKennaway comments on An accidental experiment in location memory - Less Wrong Discussion

9 Post author: PhilGoetz 31 August 2015 04:50PM

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Comment author: RichardKennaway 01 September 2015 07:57:40AM 0 points [-]

Reading the wikipedia article on "muscle memory", the concept looks like a dormitive principle. Taken literally, it makes no sense as applied to riding a bicycle (one of the examples in that article), because what you actually have to do with your muscles depends on what is happening with the bicycle in the moment. You are not playing back a stored recording of muscle movements.

Likewise walking on a slippery mat.

Comment author: SilentCal 01 September 2015 10:09:59PM 1 point [-]

Based on my own experience, it seems like 'muscle memory' means your brain learning abstractions of motion. So when you know how to ride a bike, you only have to consciously think 'turn left' rather than 'move my right hand forward and pull my left hand back and lean a little bit to the left'. These abstractions are not just recordings, as they can vary along one or more dimensions: you can turn sharply left or gently left, and your 'muscle memory' knows how to implement that.

'Sit in my desk chair' might also be a learned abstraction that involves navigating the slippery mat.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 01 September 2015 11:47:01PM 0 points [-]

you only have to consciously think 'turn left' rather than 'move my right hand forward and pull my left hand back and lean a little bit to the left'.

That isn't how you turn left on a bicycle, consciously or otherwise. If you do that you will fall off to the right. What you actually have to do is control your rate of falling over at close to zero while also controlling the rate of turning at a desired value. This cannot be done by memorising any mapping from desired turn rate to anything that you do with your muscles. A bicycle is an unstable system that the rider must continuously maintain his balance on.

Comment author: [deleted] 02 September 2015 04:05:33AM 0 points [-]

While true, this misses the point of his post, which is that muscle memory is the unconscious mastery of a complex abstraction.

Comment author: RichardKennaway 02 September 2015 06:52:31AM 0 points [-]

That brings it back to dormitive principles again. What would it mean for muscle memory to not be "the unconscious mastery of a complex abstraction"?

Comment author: [deleted] 02 September 2015 05:16:00PM 0 points [-]

It would mean that SilentCal had not given you a useful keyword you can use to learn more about something that perplexed you.

Comment author: SilentCal 02 September 2015 03:15:36PM 0 points [-]

You can think "turn left" and without any other conscious input your body executes a successful left turn on the bicycle. Something is happening in between; the common name for this something is 'muscle memory'. It's not necessarily a great name.

We don't know exactly how muscle memory works, but we can make observations about its functioning. For instance, that it cannot consist solely of exact repetition of motions, and that it must be able incorporate real-time sensory feedback (or else biking would be impossible).

Do we disagree on anything?

Comment author: RichardKennaway 02 September 2015 03:37:37PM 0 points [-]

Do we disagree on anything?

Only the usefulness of the name. "Stuff" would more clearly capture what we know about it. :) I think we can leave it there.