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Gunnar_Zarncke comments on Open thread, Dec. 14 - Dec. 20, 2015 - Less Wrong Discussion

4 Post author: MrMind 14 December 2015 08:09AM

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Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 14 December 2015 09:44:45PM 2 points [-]

This is a kind of repost of something I share on the LW slack.

Someone mentioned that "the ability to be accurately arrogant is good". This was my reply:

One aspect of arrogance is that it is how some competent people with a high self-esteem are ​perceived​ to be. I certainly was often perceived as arrogant. At least I got called that way quite often when I was younger and judging from some recent discussions which heavily reflected on that I probably made that impression for most of my life. I didn't and couldn't understand why. I certainly didn't want to give other people the feeling of inferiority. But I also did nothing to diminish my competence or my self-worth. Sadly doing nothing apparently is enough to give many other people the ​feeling​ of inferiority. And also apparently a natural response is to compensate in one of many ways:

  • lashing out and trying to diminish the others self-worth by trying to make ​them​ smaller
  • defensiveness and/or boasting: making self larger
  • avoiding the competent person to avoid the feelings associated (being around high self-esteem competent persons is often un-fun)

I was unaware of these affects and being an introvert implied that it caused me little pain that I was avoided. People who knew me well knew that I wasn't arrogant per se and otherwise nice to be around but outside my circle I had to extensively rely on my competence to get things done. I played nice - but that cause little active reciprocation. Before I knew that arrogance - or signalling 'I'm smarter than you' - is a bad move Only recently did I acquire the language and experience to really notice and understand the impression I made - and was devastated. I don't want people to feel bad next to me. And I'm working on fixing that.

Note that other people who apparently fully understand the effects do sometimes choose differently. For example they might accept the impression they make as theirs and totally accept that they are shunned.

What do you think? Do others have this pattern?

<searching for refs> ...apparently they do: This post is about how dealing with this can fail.

See also this other post about another aspect of arrogance.

Comment author: cousin_it 15 December 2015 01:35:07PM *  5 points [-]

Yes, when you imply that you're smarter than someone, you make them feel bad. And yes, many smart people don't realize that. But such behavior can also be attractive to onlookers, especially on the internet. I think Eliezer's arrogance played a big role in his popularity. Personally, I try to avoid being arrogant, but sometimes I can't help it :-)

Comment author: username2 18 December 2015 12:03:58PM 3 points [-]

You might have been more arrogant when you were young because you might have actually been smarter than most people around you. As people grow up they self select into careers that require intelligence and most of them are no longer smarter than most of their peers and signaling 'I'm smarter than you' becomes unfounded and starts to look silly.

Comment author: Gunnar_Zarncke 18 December 2015 05:03:37PM 1 point [-]

To avoid arrogance signalling let's instead poll for it:

I think I was smarter than my class-mates in school

No Yes

I think I was smarter than my co-students during university

No Yes

I think I was smarter than my colleagues on the job

No Yes

I have appeared arrogant in school

No Yes

I have looked silly in school

No Yes

I have appeared arrogant during university

No Yes

I have looked silly during university

No Yes

I have appeared arrogant on the job

No Yes

I have looked silly on the job

No Yes

For reference: My IQ

Use IQ 138 if you don't know or don't want to say. Assume present tense where applicable. Use the middle option to see results or if it doesn't apply.

Submitting...

Comment author: Lumifer 18 December 2015 03:55:01PM 0 points [-]

The classic example of this is when a smart kid from a middling high school finds herself at a good university. She was so used to being the smartest one around and not having to work hard to get good grades, and then... BAM! The level of effort she's used to is now clearly insufficient and there are smarter people all around her. The adjustment can be difficult.

Comment author: Lumifer 14 December 2015 10:00:48PM *  2 points [-]

I am, of course, an arrogant smartass :-)

I deal with this problem by being aware of it and by having the (apparently rare) ability to shut up. I also find it easy to go meta, so when I notice that the status layer of the conversation becomes tumescent and starts to dominate the subject layer, I adjust accordingly.

This works not all the time, but well enough so that I find it acceptable.

Comment author: ChristianKl 14 December 2015 10:31:35PM 1 point [-]

There are probably instances were I do come across as arrogant but I don't think it's an automatic effect of being coimpetent and having high self-esteem.

Valentine from CFAR would be a counter-example. He's competent and self-confident but he has the social skills that prevent it from coming across as arrogant.

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